McTufferton

A tactic used by a team this weekend during a local road race has generated a lot of discussion, either for or against.

They got their guy into a 2 man break and actively disrupted a (somewhat) organized chase, ultimately allowing their guy to win. Some guys in the race took exception to this tactic saying it's unsportsmanlike. They suggested sitting in while the field chased, then counter attack if/when your guy is caught. Others said their tactic was fair game.

I can see pros/cons to both. I'm curious as to BF's collective thoughts on passive vs. active blocking.

hack

The active blocking thing has come up in a couple recent races. A teammate with many years of experience explained the "proper" approach to us as follows:

If there is an organized effort to chase down the break, stay the f**k out of the way.

carpediemracing 

Even pros actively block, but usually they get yelled at and they back off. The Ghent that Nico Verhoven won was full of active blocking by the curly blonde hair ex-Liquigas rider, name escapes me, big tattoo on his back. Verhoven yelled at him, so did Magnus, and the blonde guy duly went to the back and sat on.

There's another one, I think when Cervelo Test Team was new, Thor Hushovd and some others were blocking for.. jeepers I can't remember any name. German, IAM racer now, was great when he raced for Cervelo, now not so much. Anyway they were going to the front, easing, etc.

My take is that in our grassroots (Cat 3-4-5) racing the chase has such little chance to catch that passive is best. Let whoever wants to chase chase. Active blocking just gets messy and can lead to angry riders.

I just heard that a pretty strong Cat 2 team failed to catch a break last week - the whole team minus one guy was at the front, chasing, and the one missing guy was in the break and didn't take a pull. So it's all relative I guess.

misterwaterfall

I was in a similar spot this weekend with our guy in a break. I sat right behind the team rotating at the front of the peleton working to bring them back (they had missed out). The only reason I was there was to keep them honest and follow any other attacks or chase groups that went off which happened a couple of times. I think it's bs at our level to actively mess up a solid chase effort.

Doge

I guess I'd like a better definition of "mess up". If there is plenty of space to go around a rider that gets to the front and doesn't work so hard, it that messing it up? Or is it when there is real blocking as the path is too narrow.

TheKillerPenguin

Indeed, if it's the team I think you're talking about I was in that race. I'm not entirely convinced they were going full tilt but I could be wrong.

IMO, active blocking is ******tastic. A team that has like 10 guys could simply send a couple up the road and fan out across the lane with the remaining 8. I think passive blocking is ******y but a valid tactic, as others should be able to organize around if if they're paying attention.

Doge

Is this correct?
Passive blocking: Riding at the front so those behind you, while they can safely, choose not to go around you.
Active blocking: Riding in a way those behind you cannot safely go around you.

TheKillerPenguin

I view passive blocking as disrupting a chase via interruptions in its rhythm by getting into the pull rotation and not really pulling as hard when its your turn to stick your nose in the wind, chasing down countermoves and sitting on and refusing to pull, things like that. I view active blocking as literally creating a wall between the peloton and the road in front of it by fanning across the road. I have seen both done and while I'm not really a fan of either I think passive blocking is totally valid and I think active blocking is for dudes that wear tapout t-shirts and have barbed wire tattoos.

My definitions could be different than yours and others'.

edit: rereading the first post kind of confirms I have a basically different definition of this stuff. Anyway, what I said above is what I think, potayto potahto.

McTufferton

To clarify, they weren't riding in a way that physically blocked the road. None of them were at the front of the group. Rather, they would get into what little rotation was taking place, and sometimes wouldn't let riders rotating off the front get back into rotation.

Doge

I don't know what "our level" is in this forum, but at a competitive level - there should be no requirement to work by those that have a teammate up the road. As long as they are not doing some kind of unwelcomed physical blocking, its part of the sport. That people shout at them to work, that's a tactic too.

carpediemracing 

The way I read it:

Passive blocking - sitting behind the chasing train. Not hindering it (so letting the chase team guys back into their rotation, etc), but not working. Typically the riders (in a pro race) will sit behind the chasing train, so if, say, Quick Step is chasing, and I dunno, Lotto has a guy off the front, Lotto will line up their guys behind the Quick Steps.

Passive includes going with moves and not pulling. So in my QS/Lotto example, say a Cancellara attacks. QS will have someone go with him and sit on his wheel, do no work. Not blocking, just sitting on wheels.

Active blocking - actually slowing at the front. There's a story about Renault Elf where their whole team was collectively not feeling good but they were racing near their headquarters. They launched their best guy and then lined up across a one lane road bordered by a hedge and a ditch. Apparently they went really, really slow, everyone got mad, and their guy got a massive lead. Then when the roads widened out the other teams chased with a vengeance. Everyone knew what was happening but the guy telling the story (a Renault Elf rider) was laughing about it.

With Cat 5s, 4s, and even 3s, I'll see riders to to the front and literally just sit up. Or sprint to the front and slam their brakes on going into a turn. Not good.

globecanvas

Inexperienced field: teammate up the road, other teammate softpedals in front of the pack, nobody notices.

Slightly experienced field: teammate up the road, other teammates get into the rotation and softpedal, the pack slowly notices and guys who have done and will do no work start shouting "they're blocking! somebody else pull!"

More experienced field: teammate up the road, other teammates get into the rotation and try to look like they are working hard while not actually working that hard, chasers yell at them to get out of the way.

Most experienced field: teammate up the road, other teammates get into the rotation and try to look like they are working hard while not actually working that hard, chasers ride around the false tempo-ers as if they are road furniture.



I've never seen the blocking-the-whole-road thing you guys are talking about. I would think that would end in violence.

Doge

I appreciate the definitions. Passive, by your definition is team racing. A rider that does other should get a scolding.
There seems to be a third category. Sitting at the front and slowing, when there is plenty of room to go around, racers just enjoy the draft. My son does that, I want him to do that and he is instructed to do that (by other than me).

Physically blocking is a gamesmanship tactic. It is not allowed, but for racers to slow when there is no gap is something rather common. It depends on the race culture the ride is in.

Doge

Corners and narrow roads.

Wesley36

Heinrich Hausler? Milan- San Remo maybe?

furiousferret

One of my last races a team pulled it off perfectly. Two when to the front, kept a slow pace, just enough that no one would pass them. Thirty seconds in a teammate jumped and they slowed down, only speeding up if someone tried to pass them and pull. Most of the field was banking on a sprint finish but didn't want to chase. By the time the pack got their act together he had a big enough gap to win. That was a small (20-25) cat 4 field on a windy day, so perfect for a move like that.

Doge

^^^ Legit racing

Ygduf

I like to sit 3-4-5th in line and cover fliers. If/when I somehow end up on the front from guys pulling off I basically stop pedaling. If 2-3 guys are working hard to chase, I sit right behind them and make it so they only get 3 guys working...

carpediemracing 

It was Hausler (I was thinking it's an "H" guy). It was some classic that ended in a twisty set of turns in a city, Hausler and one other guy got caught I think with 200m to go, Thor won. I haven't watched that DVD in a while.

I watched the Ghent with Nico just the other night. Blondie with the tattoos falls over, taking out Magnus, so blondie's sitting at the back comes to naught. He raced for QS that year, Boonen was behind, but QS got shut out.

Yep

My understanding has always been that it's poor form to do anything but sit on the back. If the team with someone up the road happened to be at the front and no one else was reeling the break in, you wouldn't fault them for that. Disrupting an organized chase? Not so much. It's blocking and it's horse****. Just sit in the wheels and go over the top when the catch is made. That's how the pros do it.

carpediemracing 

One thing about active blocking (any time the rider is blocking while at the front) is that it uses energy. My less experienced teammates would sit at the front to "block" and it was the stupidest thing to do. They were shattered on the Tues Night races at 5 to go, and even if they got near the front (I tried to lead out some) they couldn't make any moves (I rode any teammate I tried to help off my wheel, and it wasn't even the leadout yet).

It's not like they were weak. Later, after I told them that sitting at the front was ridiculous (using kinder, more gentle words), one lapped the field solo, and two others lapped the field behind him. So thy were strong, just using it wrong.

Generally speaking I think that any time active blocking works the break probably would have stayed away regardless because there isn't enough horsepower left in the field. There are exceptions of course but I can't think of any right now. Of course my memory is like a sieve but whatever. Any time a strong field gets an active blocker up front the field just drills it. It's when the field is collectively tired (or all the strong guys are off the front) that active blocking works, but then it's not necessary.

You can sort of deduce from that that I don't think active blocking has a place in the racing that I see. It's a red herring, obscuring the weakness of the chasers or the strength of the break.

echappist

2009 Het Nieuwsblad. Was watching all the recaps of the race from the last 10 years. In other news, I watch way to much pro cycling...

aaronmcd

This is interesting to me because when I started racing a year and a half ago one of the first things I looked up was tactics, and the main thing I learned was that teammates go to the front to block if they like the break. So blocking has always been a given in my mind, and I've done it (interupted a chase, rode tempo, got in rotation and didn't work) every chance I got. Just a few days ago a cat 2 teammate was complaining about people who block, and that was the first I heard such a thing.

mattm

not really.

mattm

this.

the funny thing about "active" blocking is that everyone seems to hate it, yet it happens so damn much. maybe they read whatever book aaron did!