BertoBerg 

Wow! Lovely frames.

Quadra Island is out there for sure.

Doug Fattic 

One of the considerations in establishing the length of a warrenty is choosing the strength of the materials that will be used. Companies would obviously error on the side of strength to avoid the problems of a frame breaking. An example is the Chicago made Schwinn Paramounts (the ones before 1978 with chromed Nervex pro lugs). I’ve repaired/repainted them and the Reynolds markings on the tubes were 19/22. That is wire gauge and when translated is approximately 1.0/.7/1.0mm wall thickness. In other words the heaviest standard tubing Reynolds made at the time. That is perfect for a loaded touring bike or when a rider is 250 pounds or more but they ride like trucks compared to the lighter tubing I prefer to use when I make a frame for myself.

I vastly prefer the ride of frame that has a wall thickness of .7/.4/.7mm in the main tubes. I prefer the quality of that ride more than the titanium frames I’ve made. That is why I quite making ti frames. I recognize other opinions may differ and have preferences that vary from mine. This is why we don’t all choose the same color. I’m 5’ 8” (at least I was) and on the light side so my tubing preference for what works best for me would not work best for someone bigger. But that is the thing about making a custom steel frame. I can choose the diameter, wall thickness, tubing hardness and even where I place the butts to tune the frame to the ride quality i'm trying to achieve.

The problem with a frame made that light is that it is not as durable. It is much easier for bad things to happen when not “just riding along”. And steel rusts and if not properly addressed on a routine basis, can rust through in places like the underside of the chain stays. So establishing a warranty based on material choice can be tricky.

The OP’s wife is shorter and weighs a lot less than most. That is why I was suggesting a custom design might work best for her. What satisfies the accounts and lawyers might not her.

nlerner

Now that's ironic.

dddd

The forum has been seeing much-renewed interest in nicely-built Huffies, Varsities and such.
Was the sub-$100 build-off thread what kicked it off?

2024 is looking to be the most ironic year here to date.

VtwinVince

Hmm, I had no idea so much was going on in my backyard on Quadra.

merziac

Circling back here to reboot this cluster, a couple more days and our buddy will be back.

Standby

merziac

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=tit...=v405-1&ia=web

merziac

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/litespe...rranty.672374/

AdventureManCO 

One can only hope, since there is more to come

merziac

Soooo, I'm back, again.

Couple of smaller examples of doing the right thing that Litespeed could learn from.

First one, Pedro's chain tool, original Tutto, never worked perfect but was ok.

Last couple of chains I did with it were hard to get back together, drive pin pushing off center.

No receipt or info where, when purchased.

A couple emails and some spare parts that didn't fix it and they sent me a new $149 Tutto II no charge and keep the spare parts and old one too.

They made good on "Lifetime Guaranty" when they didn't have too.




Next up, ORP horn/light made here in PDX, I did the Kickstart 12 years ago, the silicone strap broke, reached out to Tory, went to see him, he replaced it and gave me some other spare parts for later, also no charge.




Orp, Bob and Merz.

merziac

And another thing.

Quite awhile back I had a Lezyne tail light that intermittently won't turn off.

Reached out and they sent a new one, no charge, no questions asked and no receipt, pics or proof of purchase.

merziac

Other bike industry vendors. 3

Litespeed 0 for this round.

repechage

not arguing that indeed there may indeed be a finite service life, the critical question is was at the time of the original sale a definition of “lifetime”? And of course, was it communicated in writing?

I have had good luck with minor products, a Cygnolite (sp) headlight had its switch cover go AWOL, I emailed to purchase a new pliable switch cover. They sent a service part straightaway gratis.

big ticket items are a problem especially with small firms. I see both sides, they may not have the capital reserves to support all the potential claims. It does and should give a consumer pause regarding a purchase.

merziac

Exactly this, the average and often even the very savvy consumer sees "Lifetime Guaranty" and thinks its all good high water mark only to find out how narrow it can be when something goes wrong.

In Litespeeds case it is clearly a smoke and mirrors, bait and switch IMO.

Simple as that to me, they have taken advantage of theirs customers good trusting nature more often than not.

So they should quit using it as a hook or get it far more right so its much less of a problem for their loyal buyers.

Oldairhead 

The current warranty for Craftsman Tools reads as follows: "If the product fails to perform for any reason, we will replace it. No proof of purchase required." Sounds great right? The only problem is that they will only replace it with the exact same item. Here's the catch, they don't make the exact same models anymore, so the old screw driver you busted won't be replaced because they don't make that one anymore. They won't give you a similar one because it's well, different! Ask me how I found this out. There is a way to wiggle out of any guarantee if they want to!

merziac

Yep, all in a days work.

That guaranty may be why Craftsman has become a foot note, they haven't been good tools for a long time and I got plenty of good use from them at home.

Just don't ever try to make a living with them.

Many/most folks know the Craftsman story by now, they haven't been a premiere brand for decades, Litespeed on the other hand sells itself as just that but doesn't prove that like they should and regularly pulls the technical card when they should just step up, do the right thing and take care of the customer that put their faith and $$$$$$ in a false sense of quality.

Shame on them, maybe they modeled their guaranty after Craftsman.

dphi 

Yeah, on the second page of that thread somebody posted the archived link of their warranty at the time (2001) and it read quite differently than the current warranty language, which Litespeed used to justify not honoring it. There was also no language in the warranty stating that terms may be changed in the future.

pah

Thanx for those links, quite a pictures of a failure in the same location. I would bet that they have never once honored their lifetime warranty, especially since the company changed owners.

pah

So an ad for litespeed popped up on my feed today so of course I had to reply….

aland2

A sleeve and epoxy should fix it.

Velo Mule

Here are some insights from a top (perhaps, the top) BMX frame builder about titanium and even steel frames. He talks about the forces in BMX. We also have to keep in mind that even road bikes experience potholes, and getting torqued by the rider when sprinting or climbing. This part of the discussion starts at the 20 minute mark, however, the whole video is interesting, at least to me, as it establishes who Mike Laird is (I had no idea), how he came into frame building and how he became one of the top BMX custom frame builders. In case you skip the first 20 minutes, he built frames for Olympic Champion BMX riders.

Trakhak

An expensive chain tool, a tail light, and a horn/light. Probably costing about $50, $5, and $20 to manufacture. I wish it were possible to name items replaced under warranty, no receipt on hand, no questions asked, that cost a small business as much to manufacture and market as a titanium bike frame costs Litespeed, but I can't think of any.

As I pointed out much earlier in this thread, Schwinn pioneered the lifetime frame warranty to promote their then-new electro-forged frames. Before long, if a company had any hope of competing in the U.S. bike market, they had to (reluctantly, no doubt) follow suit. Great for Schwinn (for a while), difficult for smaller companies whose business depends on selling high-end, lightweight bikes.

Finally, sure, I'd be annoyed if my 25-year-old Litespeed suffered what looks like an open-and-shut warranty-worthy failure, but I'd understand that my not having held on to the receipt would be on me.

From Lightspeed's point of view, the original purchaser paid for the warranty - that's one of the reasons you buy a new bike. The only way I can demonstrate that I was the original purchaser would be for me to produce the receipt. If I can't do that and go on to bad-mouth Litespeed on the internet (which the OP hasn't done, you'll notice), that's just part of the cost of doing business for Litespeed. They've stayed afloat for several decades, so the way they do business has been working for them.