Why are so few road bikers triathletes?
09-06-07, 10:02 PM
#201
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This thread has inspired me to make the leap into the tri world. I hate swimming but I think I can handle it with a bit of ingenuity. 
09-06-07, 10:32 PM
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I will give credit to Cycling as a team sport which really makes it hard to compare to the individual Triathlon sport. As a team sport it does require more strategy.
Another thing I think should be addressed... not sure how fast your groups go but the roadie group I ride with I can blow out of the water if needed... short or long distance. Maybe thats what happens when you learn to ride on your own. I don't mean I can ride ahead of them for a few mintues, I mean when I get tired of their 20mph pace, I'll kick it up a few notches for those last 20 miles and never see them again.
If you think running is easier then riding I would like to point to Lance Armstrong's quote after being paced to a sub 3 hour marathon, Armstrong called the race “the hardest physical thing I have ever done." I don't think I have to point out his other accomplishments that he is comparing this to.
I have seen nothing that suggests road racing is more of a challenge physically then completing an Ironman. The in the moment stategy of road racing is there but the mental challenge of pushing your own body to its limit can not be matched. It you want to see mentally tough go to utube and search for Julie Moss. Or maybe just read about what happens just past the finish line at an Ironman.. where the adrennaline in finishing wears off and you collapse under your own weight... if you didn't already do that forcing you to crawl across the finish.
I will also note that many triathletes do not run that distance of a race, but even in for an Olympic distance race the training time required to be good is between 10-20 hours a week, often doing 2 events back to back. In a recent article about Triathelte Desiree Ficker she notes her training hours at 35/week. For those of you who say that only results in injury.. maybe you should stick to the easier sport.
Another thing I think should be addressed... not sure how fast your groups go but the roadie group I ride with I can blow out of the water if needed... short or long distance. Maybe thats what happens when you learn to ride on your own. I don't mean I can ride ahead of them for a few mintues, I mean when I get tired of their 20mph pace, I'll kick it up a few notches for those last 20 miles and never see them again.
If you think running is easier then riding I would like to point to Lance Armstrong's quote after being paced to a sub 3 hour marathon, Armstrong called the race “the hardest physical thing I have ever done." I don't think I have to point out his other accomplishments that he is comparing this to.
I have seen nothing that suggests road racing is more of a challenge physically then completing an Ironman. The in the moment stategy of road racing is there but the mental challenge of pushing your own body to its limit can not be matched. It you want to see mentally tough go to utube and search for Julie Moss. Or maybe just read about what happens just past the finish line at an Ironman.. where the adrennaline in finishing wears off and you collapse under your own weight... if you didn't already do that forcing you to crawl across the finish.
I will also note that many triathletes do not run that distance of a race, but even in for an Olympic distance race the training time required to be good is between 10-20 hours a week, often doing 2 events back to back. In a recent article about Triathelte Desiree Ficker she notes her training hours at 35/week. For those of you who say that only results in injury.. maybe you should stick to the easier sport.
2) I don't see any honor, or what is particularly difficult, about breaking your body down to the point that you collapse. She was lacking in calories, and was insufficiently prepared. Congratulations. Eat something.
3) Roadies push their bodies. We just choose a higher level of pain, and get it out of the way faster.
4) G. Simoni: 1750 VAM. A triathlete will never match that. Ever.
5) Good luck riding your aerobars through Paris-Roubaix.
Synopsis: Triathletes are glorified in society like marathon runners. Yes, there are many out there who train hard, year round. However, damn near everyone dees them (the entire group, triathletes and marathon runners) infinitely tougher than your roadie or 1500m/5k/10k dudes. But when the push comes to shove, it's mostly made up of the people who can't compete at the high pace who move up to the longer, slower distances. Even Haile Gebrselassie admitted to this.
09-06-07, 11:17 PM
#203
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Aero bars on Paris-Roubaix?? WTF.
Your still not making any sense?
Your whole last paragraph is hysterical.
Everyone does it eh? What like riding a bike is it??
Haile Gebrselassie is hardly a marathon runner. And, if you have no respect for marathon runners (which is how it sounds) then your just a typical cycling is best everything else is crap sort of guy.
3 minute K's for 42k's is hardly unimpressive.
Sorry, your awesome, absolutally awesome. You know all guide us oh wise one.
Your still not making any sense?
Your whole last paragraph is hysterical.
Everyone does it eh? What like riding a bike is it??
Haile Gebrselassie is hardly a marathon runner. And, if you have no respect for marathon runners (which is how it sounds) then your just a typical cycling is best everything else is crap sort of guy.
3 minute K's for 42k's is hardly unimpressive.
Sorry, your awesome, absolutally awesome. You know all guide us oh wise one.
09-06-07, 11:38 PM
#204
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Aero bars on Paris-Roubaix?? WTF.
Your still not making any sense?
Your whole last paragraph is hysterical.
Everyone does it eh? What like riding a bike is it??
Haile Gebrselassie is hardly a marathon runner. And, if you have no respect for marathon runners (which is how it sounds) then your just a typical cycling is best everything else is crap sort of guy.
3 minute K's for 42k's is hardly unimpressive.
Sorry, your awesome, absolutally awesome. You know all guide us oh wise one.
Your still not making any sense?
Your whole last paragraph is hysterical.
Everyone does it eh? What like riding a bike is it??
Haile Gebrselassie is hardly a marathon runner. And, if you have no respect for marathon runners (which is how it sounds) then your just a typical cycling is best everything else is crap sort of guy.
3 minute K's for 42k's is hardly unimpressive.
Sorry, your awesome, absolutally awesome. You know all guide us oh wise one.
2) I'm from Chicago, Illinois. Everyone and their mother signs up to run the Chicago Marathon. Lots of people do it, most of them are not the least bit athletic. But the dudes who break out the 32:00 10k times are just an afterthought compared to the glory of a marathon. ..."Sure, they can run a 10k fast, but could they even run a marathon?"...
3) Haile is a marathon runner now. Formerly a 5k/10k specialist, who admitted that he is now too slow for the track. Do you find anything incorrect about that? Do his recent results not back that up?
4) See #2. As I stated, there are some people who train their asses off. And I respect that. But those who run a marathon because it's the thing to do these days...no.
I ran Division I track here. I know running. Respect it. I know 80 mile weeks. Tempo runs at sub-6 pace. Quarters and Ks on the track till you puke. My dad has been running the Chicago and Boston Marathons for the last 20 years. I've been to Chicago more times than I can count. And I've seen a lot of people who are out there because, as mentioned, it's the thing to do. Like joining a bridge or quilting club. And, if you can run a marathon without training, without really hurting in the months and years building up to it or during the race, there's something wrong with that.
09-06-07, 11:49 PM
#205
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You've gotta help me out here what are you on about?
Where is it stated that Trithletes don't respect other sports people? I missed that one. All I see is people like you saying marathon running is easy any body can do it. That is true for the most part.
By that logic nothing is difficult because essentially people can do anything they put there mind to.
Gebrselassie may well be doing the odd marathon here and there but he's older now and past his best for the shorter distances. He's never been a noted Marathon runner was my point. Do you just not like triathlon or something or are you worried that there is a perception on a cycling forum that tri's are better than cycling and feel the need to defend your sports honour. You keep bagging sports in defence of people bagging yours.
Look around champ your on a bike forum not a triathlon or running one.
People are here for their interest in cycling and you feel the need to slate anything else you can think of why? Did a triathlete beat you up or something. I don't get it.
Where is it stated that Trithletes don't respect other sports people? I missed that one. All I see is people like you saying marathon running is easy any body can do it. That is true for the most part.
By that logic nothing is difficult because essentially people can do anything they put there mind to.
Gebrselassie may well be doing the odd marathon here and there but he's older now and past his best for the shorter distances. He's never been a noted Marathon runner was my point. Do you just not like triathlon or something or are you worried that there is a perception on a cycling forum that tri's are better than cycling and feel the need to defend your sports honour. You keep bagging sports in defence of people bagging yours.
Look around champ your on a bike forum not a triathlon or running one.
People are here for their interest in cycling and you feel the need to slate anything else you can think of why? Did a triathlete beat you up or something. I don't get it.
09-07-07, 05:08 AM
#206
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You've gotta help me out here what are you on about?
Where is it stated that Trithletes don't respect other sports people? I missed that one. All I see is people like you saying marathon running is easy any body can do it. That is true for the most part.
By that logic nothing is difficult because essentially people can do anything they put there mind to.
Gebrselassie may well be doing the odd marathon here and there but he's older now and past his best for the shorter distances. He's never been a noted Marathon runner was my point. Do you just not like triathlon or something or are you worried that there is a perception on a cycling forum that tri's are better than cycling and feel the need to defend your sports honour. You keep bagging sports in defence of people bagging yours.
Look around champ your on a bike forum not a triathlon or running one.
People are here for their interest in cycling and you feel the need to slate anything else you can think of why? Did a triathlete beat you up or something. I don't get it.
Where is it stated that Trithletes don't respect other sports people? I missed that one. All I see is people like you saying marathon running is easy any body can do it. That is true for the most part.
By that logic nothing is difficult because essentially people can do anything they put there mind to.
Gebrselassie may well be doing the odd marathon here and there but he's older now and past his best for the shorter distances. He's never been a noted Marathon runner was my point. Do you just not like triathlon or something or are you worried that there is a perception on a cycling forum that tri's are better than cycling and feel the need to defend your sports honour. You keep bagging sports in defence of people bagging yours.
Look around champ your on a bike forum not a triathlon or running one.
People are here for their interest in cycling and you feel the need to slate anything else you can think of why? Did a triathlete beat you up or something. I don't get it.
If you look at my first post on this page, it's a response to climbin5414. He states that road cycling is an easier sport, in his last line. Hence me quoting him. I thought it was a pretty direct connection between the statements he made, and my rebuttal.
Or maybe not. I was just quoting him for the hell of it.
To show you, because you can't seem to find what I'm talking about:
[QUOTE=climbin5414}I will also note that many triathletes do not run that distance of a race, but even in for an Olympic distance race the training time required to be good is between 10-20 hours a week, often doing 2 events back to back. In a recent article about Triathelte Desiree Ficker she notes her training hours at 35/week. For those of you who say that only results in injury.. maybe you should stick to the easier sport.[/QUOTE]
09-07-07, 06:21 AM
#207
Making a kilometer blurry
So, how do I show up to my first triathlon with 3 hours total swim training and having only run a total of 3.5 miles for training, then get 3rd in the 35-39 age group (out of 50)? I got out of the water with a 22-minute 800m swim, in 28th place. Horrible. I had 1:40 transitions. Lame.
3rd in age group?
I wish I could have gotten 3rd in an M35+ bike race this season. The only one I did with a comparable field size, I got 17th. It must be the easier sport?
I guess my point is that either sport is very tough in the top tier. In triathlon it is much easier to be mediocre.
3rd in age group?
I wish I could have gotten 3rd in an M35+ bike race this season. The only one I did with a comparable field size, I got 17th. It must be the easier sport?
I guess my point is that either sport is very tough in the top tier. In triathlon it is much easier to be mediocre.
Last edited by waterrockets; 09-07-07 at 06:33 AM.
09-07-07, 06:33 AM
#208
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Sounds like you had either a) a small age group, or b) no one good in it. What did you place overall?
Duke, people in America give respect to marathoners and long course tri's because people respect solo endurance efforts. We could get into the psych thing about how America favours individuals over groups because of communism, but we can just leave it at individual = good, group = bad in america. Go to Europe, you'll be a rock star.
I don't know any triathletes that disrespect cycling. That's dumb, it's a huge part of our sport. We just think running off the bike is harder than riding a crit. We'll have to agree to disagree, although you've compelled me to give the local tuesday night crit around here a try....sounds fun.
Duke, people in America give respect to marathoners and long course tri's because people respect solo endurance efforts. We could get into the psych thing about how America favours individuals over groups because of communism, but we can just leave it at individual = good, group = bad in america. Go to Europe, you'll be a rock star.
I don't know any triathletes that disrespect cycling. That's dumb, it's a huge part of our sport. We just think running off the bike is harder than riding a crit. We'll have to agree to disagree, although you've compelled me to give the local tuesday night crit around here a try....sounds fun.
09-07-07, 06:53 AM
#209
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Not all triathletes think that. I thought about switching to road racing exclusively early in the season when I couldn't run from an IT band injury. Crits are harder. I would bury myself in crit and be lucky to place top 10 in cat 4. A couple weeks ago I raced a 700 person sprint tri and jogged a 20 minute 5k while chatting with the guy on the pace bike because I had gapped 2nd place by 4 minutes after the swim and bike. Granted, it wasn't a deep field, but it was a lot easier than any crit I've ever raced.
09-07-07, 07:15 AM
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well hello paula, I'm Deena Castor and I hold the american record in the 10000m, 5k, 8k, 12k, 15k, 10 mile, 20k, half marathon, and marathon. Oh and I hold the world record in the 5k. And have an olympic broze for the marathon.
But ya know, I've moved up to the longer, slower distances.
09-07-07, 07:43 AM
#211
Making a kilometer blurry
Overall: 48/458 finishers
Men: 32/176 finishers
Age group (30-39): 3/42 finishers
FWIW: I consider 3rd in my age group to be mediocre. I couldn't have touched the age group winner (though I've beat him in bike races). 3rd overall would be a different story...
09-07-07, 07:46 AM
#212
Making a kilometer blurry
Hi, my name is Paula Radcliffe. I hold the world record in the marathon. In fact, I have run 4 of the 5 fastest marathons ever. I also hold the WR for the 10k.
well hello paula, I'm Deena Castor and I hold the american record in the 10000m, 5k, 8k, 12k, 15k, 10 mile, 20k, half marathon, and marathon. Oh and I hold the world record in the 5k. And have an olympic broze for the marathon.
But ya know, I've moved up to the longer, slower distances.
well hello paula, I'm Deena Castor and I hold the american record in the 10000m, 5k, 8k, 12k, 15k, 10 mile, 20k, half marathon, and marathon. Oh and I hold the world record in the 5k. And have an olympic broze for the marathon.
But ya know, I've moved up to the longer, slower distances.
+1 for the PR ab shot though. Niiiiice...
09-07-07, 08:29 AM
#213
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I really think there are two parallel conversations going on here, and the divide is based on a point that has been pointed out by many people here.....Triathlons, and marathons too, are more participatory events than are bike races...lots of folks are doing them to see if they can finish rather than looking for the win....most folks in bike races are looking for the win (either for themselves or teammate).
Comparing the training or toughness of bike racers to the finish the racers in triathlons or marathons makes no sense.
If, on the other hand, you look at the folks really racing the marathons and triathlons we're much closer, though many have made the valid points that triathlons are TT's vs. the varied pace of most bike racing. Nonetheless, comparable toughness when comparing similar levels of athletes....same could probably be said for those trying to finish a marathon compared to those trying to finish a century.
Comparing the training or toughness of bike racers to the finish the racers in triathlons or marathons makes no sense.
If, on the other hand, you look at the folks really racing the marathons and triathlons we're much closer, though many have made the valid points that triathlons are TT's vs. the varied pace of most bike racing. Nonetheless, comparable toughness when comparing similar levels of athletes....same could probably be said for those trying to finish a marathon compared to those trying to finish a century.
09-07-07, 09:45 AM
#214
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I went back and looked:
Overall: 48/458 finishers
Men: 32/176 finishers
Age group (30-39): 3/42 finishers
FWIW: I consider 3rd in my age group to be mediocre. I couldn't have touched the age group winner (though I've beat him in bike races). 3rd overall would be a different story...
Overall: 48/458 finishers
Men: 32/176 finishers
Age group (30-39): 3/42 finishers
FWIW: I consider 3rd in my age group to be mediocre. I couldn't have touched the age group winner (though I've beat him in bike races). 3rd overall would be a different story...
09-07-07, 10:38 AM
#215
Making a kilometer blurry
Not to diminish your accomplishment, good place with no training, but those are some pretty slow times across the board. Probably a B or a C race on the calander for most. Had i been in that race, i would have won my age group (i placed 7th in my AG in most recent sprint), and based on the bike and the run (your swim length doesnt match up) the overall winner of your race would have placed 9th in mine nearly 4 minutes behind the winner (a lightyear in a sprint race). Plus, thats essentially a sprint race...any fit person can do a sprint well, especially a strong cyclist. Have a crack at a longer race and let me know what you think.
Regarding the competition, you need to do more homework:
Brandon Marsh was 25th in the long course worlds this year, and his wife, Amy was 7th (they won the Dilloman last year):
https://www.usatriathlon.org/sitecore...s_Results.aspx
My bet is that you would not have done nearly as well as you think. It's very tough, and there are a lot of triathletes here. Small town with two tri-specific shops, and more business than they need.
I have no delusions that I did some amazing triathlon (I stated my results are mediocre). Still, I smashed the poop out of a bunch of guys that probably think they're fit.
I may do another tri one day, but I can't stay healthy for run training. In my core as an athlete, I am a much better runner than cyclist, but I can never train it.
The other problem is that you don't get nearly as many opportunities to crush souls in a triathlon. I got to mess with one guy on the run (from the 30-34 heat in front of us), but it wasn't enough for me. On the bike, I was just saying "on the left" the whole time -- which makes sense with a dog-slow swim, but I want to play head games. Wrong sport.
09-07-07, 11:14 AM
#216
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Hi, my name is Paula Radcliffe. I hold the world record in the marathon. In fact, I have run 4 of the 5 fastest marathons ever. I also hold the WR for the 10k.
well hello paula, I'm Deena Castor and I hold the american record in the 10000m, 5k, 8k, 12k, 15k, 10 mile, 20k, half marathon, and marathon. Oh and I hold the world record in the 5k. And have an olympic broze for the marathon.
But ya know, I've moved up to the longer, slower distances.
well hello paula, I'm Deena Castor and I hold the american record in the 10000m, 5k, 8k, 12k, 15k, 10 mile, 20k, half marathon, and marathon. Oh and I hold the world record in the 5k. And have an olympic broze for the marathon.
But ya know, I've moved up to the longer, slower distances.
WR: https://www.iaaf.org/statistics/topli...l=A/index.html
Hasn't run the 10k yet this year: https://www.iaaf.org/statistics/topli...l=A/index.html
Didn't run the 10k in 2006: https://www.iaaf.org/statistics/topli...l=A/index.html
Once in 2005: https://www.iaaf.org/statistics/topli...l=A/index.html
2) Deena Castor does not hold the world record in anything. Put down the pipe. https://www.iaaf.org/statistics/topli...l=A/index.html
Didn't run it in 2006: https://www.iaaf.org/statistics/topli...l=A/index.html
Same with 2005: https://www.iaaf.org/statistics/topli...l=A/index.html
3) Geb, the arguably the greatest distance runner of all time, gave up the track, because, as he stated, he is not fast enough any more. This from a man who has set world records, and many of them.
Any more dumb statements to make?
09-07-07, 01:26 PM
#217
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We have a self pronounced "semi-elite" tri guy in town who started training with us.. He complained that none of us knew how to train. hahahaha! we've got an ex olympian, an olympic alternate, and some state champs in our group, GA cup winners as well... he kept getting dropped in the attacks, complained that the pace wasn't smooth enough for him... wtf.. look around bro, no ones else has aero bars... if you want to practice time trials, you don't need ride with the hard group on the hard days.. we are not time trialing today...
We don't mind if you ride, but you shouldn't show up and then complain.. and I mean complain! (he didnt suggest, or critique, or make suggestions, he was just complaining that "you guys don't know what your doing" but he couldn't hang on over 30mph.. wtf?? And whats with these guys not being able to ride a straight line.. I couldn't tell when this guy was moving over for someone to come through, or just trying to make more power.. His tires where anywhere within a 3 foot wide area at any give time. I watched the Olympic sprint triathlon a few years back.. great athletes yes, good bike riders? Hardly, I've seen cat V racers with smoother strokes. it's guys like that, that make me want to start wearing a helmet.. It is possible to ride a straight line on a TT bike with an aggressive position, I do it, and so do guys who were (smooth) roadies first I'm guessing.
We don't mind if you ride, but you shouldn't show up and then complain.. and I mean complain! (he didnt suggest, or critique, or make suggestions, he was just complaining that "you guys don't know what your doing" but he couldn't hang on over 30mph.. wtf?? And whats with these guys not being able to ride a straight line.. I couldn't tell when this guy was moving over for someone to come through, or just trying to make more power.. His tires where anywhere within a 3 foot wide area at any give time. I watched the Olympic sprint triathlon a few years back.. great athletes yes, good bike riders? Hardly, I've seen cat V racers with smoother strokes. it's guys like that, that make me want to start wearing a helmet.. It is possible to ride a straight line on a TT bike with an aggressive position, I do it, and so do guys who were (smooth) roadies first I'm guessing.
Last edited by Smoothie104; 09-07-07 at 01:33 PM.
09-07-07, 01:31 PM
#218
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I think people that go straight to a tri bike without ever riding a road bike or riding with roadies never seem to develop the skills i agree. That guy sounds like a cry baby....if you're riding with the fast roadie group, shutup and try to hang, or shutup and drop.
09-07-07, 02:14 PM
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09-07-07, 02:38 PM
#220
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09-07-07, 02:39 PM
#221
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Was Deena pregnant too? What about Haile? Paul T? Dathan Ritzenhein? Bob Kennedy (now retired, but the races entered speak for themselves)? Torres brothers? Kara Goucher? Culpepper? Frank Shorter?
All are examples. And pretty sure none of the men have been pregnant.
Pretty sure she wasn't pregnant during 2004: https://iaaf.org/statistics/toplists/...l=A/index.html
All are examples. And pretty sure none of the men have been pregnant.
Pretty sure she wasn't pregnant during 2004: https://iaaf.org/statistics/toplists/...l=A/index.html
Last edited by Duke of Kent; 09-07-07 at 02:46 PM.
