Vintage Touring Gearing and Derailleur Recommendation
#26
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I finally got the project bike last night and discovered I was off a bit on ratios. The front chainrings are 52/40, and the 5-speed freewheel is 14-30. Will keep my eye out for a SR triple while I refurb the bike. I can likely live with the 40-30 ratio by standing up, although that's not as fun as a Clyde as it used to be when I weighed 145 lbs.
Last edited by ACHiPo; 11-30-23 at 12:00 PM.
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Another endorsement for a triple up front. Here is my mountain bike gearing, which goes a bit below 1:1, with good ratiometric progression:
46-38-28 (or 26, or even 24) / 12-13-15-17-20-23-26-30 1.5-step on the middle and large rings, crossover between the middle and small rings
Cassette was off-the-shelf, with replacement of the stock 11-tooth lockring with my 12-tooth.
46-38-28 (or 26, or even 24) / 12-13-15-17-20-23-26-30 1.5-step on the middle and large rings, crossover between the middle and small rings
Cassette was off-the-shelf, with replacement of the stock 11-tooth lockring with my 12-tooth.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#28
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Did someone mention gear ratio calculators? My personal favorite.
#29
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I finally got the project bike last night and discovered I was off a bit on ratios. The front chainrings are 52/40, and the 5-speed freewheel is 14-30. Will keep my eye out for a SR triple while I refurb the bike. I can likely live with the 40-30 ratio by standing up, although that's not as fun as a Clyde as it used to be when I weighed 145 lbs.
Do confirm what is the BCD on that crank of yours. If an old double chances are it is a 130 BCD which means you can buy yourself a tiny amount of wiggle room with a 38t ring. As I mentioned before you don't have to run a triple ring on a triple crank. Old school triple was 110/74 BCD; at 110BCD that buys you all the way down to 33t. If you stick to a 52 big ring it would be a huge ca-klunk to shift but it would shift.
Or get a TA touriste crank and you can have any chainring combo imaginable, including the ones that makes no sense. Heck you could have a quadruple crank for all it cares.
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#30
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Another endorsement for a triple up front. Here is my mountain bike gearing, which goes a bit below 1:1, with good ratiometric progression:
46-38-28 (or 26, or even 24) / 12-13-15-17-20-23-26-30 1.5-step on the middle and large rings, crossover between the middle and small rings
Cassette was off-the-shelf, with replacement of the stock 11-tooth lockring with my 12-tooth.
46-38-28 (or 26, or even 24) / 12-13-15-17-20-23-26-30 1.5-step on the middle and large rings, crossover between the middle and small rings
Cassette was off-the-shelf, with replacement of the stock 11-tooth lockring with my 12-tooth.
#31
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What?! This is where we Clydes excel at! No twig can compete when we get off the saddle and start pushing down 200+ pounds onto them pedals
Do confirm what is the BCD on that crank of yours. If an old double chances are it is a 130 BCD which means you can buy yourself a tiny amount of wiggle room with a 38t ring. As I mentioned before you don't have to run a triple ring on a triple crank. Old school triple was 110/74 BCD; at 110BCD that buys you all the way down to 33t. If you stick to a 52 big ring it would be a huge ca-klunk to shift but it would shift.
Or get a TA touriste crank and you can have any chainring combo imaginable, including the ones that makes no sense. Heck you could have a quadruple crank for all it cares.
Do confirm what is the BCD on that crank of yours. If an old double chances are it is a 130 BCD which means you can buy yourself a tiny amount of wiggle room with a 38t ring. As I mentioned before you don't have to run a triple ring on a triple crank. Old school triple was 110/74 BCD; at 110BCD that buys you all the way down to 33t. If you stick to a 52 big ring it would be a huge ca-klunk to shift but it would shift.
Or get a TA touriste crank and you can have any chainring combo imaginable, including the ones that makes no sense. Heck you could have a quadruple crank for all it cares.
Regarding the cassette, yes I plan to keep the freewheel, although that 14 tooth cog seems huge compared to what's available on modern cassettes. If I could go to a 10 or 11 tooth, I could drop the big crank rink down to mid-40s which would make things easier on the FD.
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When evaluating gearing with this tool, and it's the best bicycle gearing tool ever made, I usually start with one chainring, so that I can see what the spacing of the rear looks like, (the numbers along the bottom of the graph are % change between cogs,) and what my high gear is going to be. (I prefer 90 - 100 inch gears, and the first thing I'll sacrifice is top end, but that's me.) Then I slide a second chainring over from the left-hand side, and keep an eye on the relationships between the gear arrows on the graph. This is where you can really see, and play with, the tradeoffs between range, spacing, and shift pattern. For triples, I usually just pick the smallest granny ring I think I can get away with with the parts I'm using, but I do put it into the tool for a sanity check.
--Shannon
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#33
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You don't enter cog sizes, you slide the little cog symbols back and forth with your mouse. There's no instructions, but if you play with it, you'll get it.
When evaluating gearing with this tool, and it's the best bicycle gearing tool ever made, I usually start with one chainring, so that I can see what the spacing of the rear looks like, (the numbers along the bottom of the graph are % change between cogs,) and what my high gear is going to be. (I prefer 90 - 100 inch gears, and the first thing I'll sacrifice is top end, but that's me.) Then I slide a second chainring over from the left-hand side, and keep an eye on the relationships between the gear arrows on the graph. This is where you can really see, and play with, the tradeoffs between range, spacing, and shift pattern. For triples, I usually just pick the smallest granny ring I think I can get away with with the parts I'm using, but I do put it into the tool for a sanity check.
--Shannon
When evaluating gearing with this tool, and it's the best bicycle gearing tool ever made, I usually start with one chainring, so that I can see what the spacing of the rear looks like, (the numbers along the bottom of the graph are % change between cogs,) and what my high gear is going to be. (I prefer 90 - 100 inch gears, and the first thing I'll sacrifice is top end, but that's me.) Then I slide a second chainring over from the left-hand side, and keep an eye on the relationships between the gear arrows on the graph. This is where you can really see, and play with, the tradeoffs between range, spacing, and shift pattern. For triples, I usually just pick the smallest granny ring I think I can get away with with the parts I'm using, but I do put it into the tool for a sanity check.
--Shannon
Thanks. That makes sense!
Evan
#34
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I will check the BCD tonight. I might be able to drop down to a 38. Not sure how well the 7GT front derailleur will handle a 14 tooth jump, but then I'm also not sure how well it would handle a triple, especially if I go something 52/40/26.
Regarding the cassette, yes I plan to keep the freewheel, although that 14 tooth cog seems huge compared to what's available on modern cassettes. If I could go to a 10 or 11 tooth, I could drop the big crank rink down to mid-40s which would make things easier on the FD.
Regarding the cassette, yes I plan to keep the freewheel, although that 14 tooth cog seems huge compared to what's available on modern cassettes. If I could go to a 10 or 11 tooth, I could drop the big crank rink down to mid-40s which would make things easier on the FD.
Gearing is a personal thing and a matter of cadence; some folks sustain higher speeds at higher cadence/lower gearing. I'm a lower cadence kind of guy so 115 gear inches is as high as I go.
#36
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Do you spend a lot of time on the 54/14 combo? That's 101 gear inches, which is adequate for a grocery getter. My touring high setup is 48/11 or 115 gear inches, which gives me a strong cruising speed on flats. A common road bike setup would be 52/11 on 700c or 124 gear inches. I don't have the legs for that.
Gearing is a personal thing and a matter of cadence; some folks sustain higher speeds at higher cadence/lower gearing. I'm a lower cadence kind of guy so 115 gear inches is as high as I go.
Gearing is a personal thing and a matter of cadence; some folks sustain higher speeds at higher cadence/lower gearing. I'm a lower cadence kind of guy so 115 gear inches is as high as I go.
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Do you spend a lot of time on the 54/14 combo? That's 101 gear inches, which is adequate for a grocery getter. My touring high setup is 48/11 or 115 gear inches, which gives me a strong cruising speed on flats. A common road bike setup would be 52/11 on 700c or 124 gear inches. I don't have the legs for that.
Gearing is a personal thing and a matter of cadence; some folks sustain higher speeds at higher cadence/lower gearing. I'm a lower cadence kind of guy so 115 gear inches is as high as I go.
Gearing is a personal thing and a matter of cadence; some folks sustain higher speeds at higher cadence/lower gearing. I'm a lower cadence kind of guy so 115 gear inches is as high as I go.
#39
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My friend still laughs remembering the day I tried to pedal up a steeeep wet incline on my granny gear. I hit wet leaves and for a long moment I was pedaling like a crazed mouse on an exercise wheel while the bike was actually going backwards. Falling put a stop to that shenanigan....
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When pulling music gear in a trailer up fairly steep inclines I routinely use 26-32 in 700c or a hair below 22". I'm nowhere near falling over. It can be very useful to have low gears. When actually touring I usually have a bailout below 20". When you need one it's a life saver and yes, you are still going faster than if you pushed a loaded tourer up the same hill.
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I will check the BCD tonight. I might be able to drop down to a 38. Not sure how well the 7GT front derailleur will handle a 14 tooth jump, but then I'm also not sure how well it would handle a triple, especially if I go something 52/40/26.
Regarding the cassette, yes I plan to keep the freewheel, although that 14 tooth cog seems huge compared to what's available on modern cassettes. If I could go to a 10 or 11 tooth, I could drop the big crank rink down to mid-40s which would make things easier on the FD.
Regarding the cassette, yes I plan to keep the freewheel, although that 14 tooth cog seems huge compared to what's available on modern cassettes. If I could go to a 10 or 11 tooth, I could drop the big crank rink down to mid-40s which would make things easier on the FD.
.
Last edited by ACHiPo; 11-30-23 at 09:04 PM.
#42
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Nope. That’s not the right bolt circle diameter. It looks like yours is a 110 but you can measure it by measuring center to center between two adjacent bolts and multiply by 1.70 which will give you the BCD in mm.
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No, you don’t fall down. You should be able to ride that slow and even stay in a straight line.
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--Shannon
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I think that probably is 118 or some other such odd bcd.
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#46
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Off the saddle I can maintain around 70rpm, which at 22 gear inches would have me at 4.5mph and able to tackle a really good incline . On a bigger incline by the time I'm down to 50rpm I'm at walking speed. Your 20/36 would put you at 3mph at the same 70rpm
#47
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No problem. The bike came with a 6-speed freewheel, and the previous owner had upgraded to a 7-speed. My 8-speed upgrade to a newer wheelset with a freehub and the same OLD was a relatively recent change.
With a 7-speed freewheel, I was running 48-40-28 / 13-15-17-19-21-24-28, which gave me a perfectly adequate 96 gear inch top instead of my current 100, and a 1:1, 26 gear inch low gear. It worked with a 24-tooth inner chainring, but the 24-to-40 upshift in front had to be done with finesse. 28-to-40 worked much more easily.
With a 7-speed freewheel, I was running 48-40-28 / 13-15-17-19-21-24-28, which gave me a perfectly adequate 96 gear inch top instead of my current 100, and a 1:1, 26 gear inch low gear. It worked with a 24-tooth inner chainring, but the 24-to-40 upshift in front had to be done with finesse. 28-to-40 worked much more easily.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#48
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Either that requires an RPM way up there or your gear inches are not what you think they are. You should do a direct measurement to confirm (measure the bike travel per revolution of the crank).
Off the saddle I can maintain around 70rpm, which at 22 gear inches would have me at 4.5mph and able to tackle a really good incline . On a bigger incline by the time I'm down to 50rpm I'm at walking speed. Your 20/36 would put you at 3mph at the same 70rpm
Off the saddle I can maintain around 70rpm, which at 22 gear inches would have me at 4.5mph and able to tackle a really good incline . On a bigger incline by the time I'm down to 50rpm I'm at walking speed. Your 20/36 would put you at 3mph at the same 70rpm
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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