mattia76

Hey guys.
I'v spent the last 2 days looking at information on these forums for info on this Guerciotti I have a line on.
Every time I think I've figured out what it is, there's a new wrinkle.

For instance: It looks just like a Victory 7400 SL from the 1985 catalog, EXCEPT
-it has a chrome steel fork
-it has Ergo shifters and appears to be made for them


Any info would help. The shifter evidence seems to point to post-1992, but I honestly don't know.

Here are my pics. I don't know what else is on the Columbus tube sticker, but I know Guerciotti is engraved into the chainstays.

Dfrost 

The cable stops for shift housings are added over down tube shift lever bosses, so nothing else is required for a frame to be used with Ergo levers. It is quite likely that the Ergo shift levers, etc. were added later. And the chrome fork could have been a replacement. You'll definitely want to look for any evidence of crash damage (often the reason forks are replaced) on the top tube and down tube.

miamijim

For the most part nothing on that bike is original so there's no use comparing it to a catalog.

The frame and fork does appear to be a mid 80's TSD product. Ten Speed Drive (TSD) was the U.S. importer and distributor of Guerciottis. Fork is original and they are fine bike. Campy Ergo levers didn't come out until '92?

mattia76

Actually, the chrome fork is NOT a replacement, as it has the engravings I've seen on a bunch of other Guerciotti pics, including a nearly identical bike that was red with the chrome fork. The markings are exactly the same as the ones with the painted forks.

The issue that I'm having is trying to date it. I'm not sure what years TSD offered the chrome steel forks with the painted stamps/engravings on the forks.

mattia76

Oh really? I thought just the Stem and Handlebars had been replaced, which would have explained the newer shifters. I was told all the other components were original.

DiabloScott

This is from 1985. Budget model gets Triomphe and SL and painted fork. Deluxe model gets Super Record, SLX, and chrome fork.

Bianchigirll 

I agree. When 10spd Drive was selling these you could order them however you wanted so it is possible the chrome fork is original. The group post dates this frame by a good 15+/- years. Guerciottis were pretty nice riding bikes.

jiangshi

Definitely a TSD bike. FWIW, the Gooch I had of that era was one of the flexiest bikes I ever owned. One water bottle boss and clamp on FD point to early 1980's.

Dfrost 

That's good news! I couldn't make out the fork crown engraving from your shots.

As far as dating the frame, the message is that the shifters and derailleurs are not indicators.

Bianchigirll 

Why would you replace the bar and stem just to install Ergo shifters? Better pics would help but I would suspect the bar stem and headset are more original than the rest of the components.

mattia76

I'll know more on Saturday. Obviously the saddle and post have been replaced, as well as the rims.

Bianchigirll 

But we don't know if the frame is an '85 and I am sure if you paid the up charge you get the chrome fork.

DiabloScott

Yeah it looks newer than '85 and it doesn't have a chrome chain stay... but chrome forks were around on stock bikes.

jiangshi

I still think it is earlier than 1985 due to having a clamp on FD and only one water bottle boss.

Looks like Record hubs, really nice Record pedals and other higher end Campy components, can't tell exactly what level.

The components may be worth more than the frame, from what I can see.

Guerciotti's were great in the early years, the TSD years, not so much, unless I had a bad one.

mattia76

I think the rear derailleur might be a Campy Athena?

Where does that fall on the hierarchy of components?

Chombi1 

C Record/Delta on top
Croce d'aune next
Chorus third
Athena 4th....
Athena line eventually got hand-me-down designs from the upper model lines as the years went by, so they tend to work pretty good as they carried over what was worth keeping in the gruppos....

T-Mar

The Guerciotti decals are no older than 1984, while the Columbus decal is pre-1988. The frame only has a single set of bottle bosses like the 1984 catalogue but the has the pump as shown in the 1985 catalogue. This would seem to point to a 1984-1985 transition model but does not explain the chromed fork. However, if there is nothing to indicate TSD, I wouldn't rule out a foreign market frame, as there was often variation from USA market.

Bianchigirll 

I am pretty sure there is a !0Spd Drive sticker on the bottom of the seat tube.


Are we sure it is a Guerciotti at all? I saw a Colnago toe clip so maybe it is a Colnago in Guerciotti clothing

jiangshi

TSD logo on rear brake bridge

mattia76

When did the TSD years begin and end?

jiangshi

I think they started in the 70's and lasted until the early 90's.

Soylent 

Good eye! It is there. Script "Paolo Guerciotti" pantographing on the seat stays was 1984 and newer. Typically the SLX got the chromed chain stay, braise-on derailleur, and chrome fork. SL had painted chain stays, clamp-on front derailleur hanger, painted fork. However, my transition '83 SL had the braise-on hanger. I was able to order a chrome fork a year later but decided not to.

mattia76

Just took the Guerciotti in question on a spin around the Wash-U campus.

Wow. This was my first time on a classic racing bike. So efficient and smooth!!

The frame fits, so that's a plus.

I believe it is an SL or SLX tube set. Probably SL. (What would be the difference?)

The components are not Athena. They are all Compagnolo Chorus.

I did not buy it yet. I am definitely not a Drop dude. I just can't get comfy bent over that much.

I'm wondering if I can convert it to a moustache rig with a higher stem-rise and still keep the same components.

Chombi1 

SLX tubing is a development from the older SL line. Columbus added internal, helical reinforcing ribs to the tubeset to make them stiffer (although most will not notice the difference and IIRC, there's actually a slight weight penalty over the SL). The SLX carried on as their flagship tubeset through most of the second half of the 80's, being in good company with equivalent top line tubeset s from other makers like Reynolds 753 and Vitus Supervitus 980, till Columbus started coming out with their own "oversized" tubing, going into the 90's

dddd

These bikes were designed with steep angles and short chainstays, for racing responsiveness and with the intention of a hard-charging, hard-pedaling rider being relatively forward of the bottom bracket in order to stay aero and to balance the torque of hard pedaling.


Putting the rider in a more upright position on one of these bikes will not put much weight on the front wheel as intended, and the short reach ahead of the steering axis will further combine with a high hands position to produce extremely twitchy steering, the exact opposite of what most riders would want in an upright bike.


Better to start with a cruiser or tourer that has longer chainstays and slacker angles.
A Schwinn Varsity or Continental is perfect for that kind of thing, the angles are 70 degrees and the chainstays are long, which is why so many of these frames were sold as upright Suburban models that rode and handled extremely well.