I hate to bring this up for the gazillionth time, new chain (Campy)
#1
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I hate to bring this up for the gazillionth time, new chain (Campy)
My Campy 13-29 cassette came today and I was going to pair it up with a new KMC 10sp chain that I have. So I hate to ask but which of the following methods should I use with the chain:
1. Keep original lube until it gets dirty, then clean it thoroughly and use Squirt liquid wax lube.
2. Clean factory lube from chain immediately and use Squirt.
3. Just apply Squirt over the factory lube.
And a second question too, my current cassette is 13-26 and I'm going up to 13-29. Should I add links? This I can test by putting the new cassette on with the current chain and seeing if it works on the stand at least with the current length. But if I need to add would you go 2 links or 4 links? Derailleur is Chorus short cage 10sp. Front is 50/34. It is technically outside the range, as is the total wrap, but everyone says it'll work.
All answers must be accompanied by the Campy secret handshake.
#2
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Bike chains are all 1/2" pitch , 'speeds' is how wide they are.. ** Plan: keep checking it for wear 'stretch' 1 foot = 12" in length + ..
choices: Attachment, let it go til well worn then buy a cassette too which will wear faster with a worn chain.
Or Non-attachment, replace the chain as soon as it's out of best spec , put a new one on, extend the cassette teeth life..
** you don't have to buy a Campagnolo chain,, KMC may aide your non-attachment..
29 is bigger than 23, right?
Has common sense become rare?
choices: Attachment, let it go til well worn then buy a cassette too which will wear faster with a worn chain.
Or Non-attachment, replace the chain as soon as it's out of best spec , put a new one on, extend the cassette teeth life..
** you don't have to buy a Campagnolo chain,, KMC may aide your non-attachment..
29 is bigger than 23, right?
Has common sense become rare?
#3
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At least you know the question is silly, but it's easy to answer.
Regarding Lube: Do what you please. I ride them as they ship, and really pay attention to drivetrain noise and shifting, then change lube as needed.
Regarding length: wrap the chain around your largest cog and chainring and bypass the derailleur, then add two links.
Regarding Lube: Do what you please. I ride them as they ship, and really pay attention to drivetrain noise and shifting, then change lube as needed.
Regarding length: wrap the chain around your largest cog and chainring and bypass the derailleur, then add two links.
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#4
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Also, your penance is 4 tire changes, and a wheel truing.
#5
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Thread Starter
Bike chains are all 1/2" pitch , 'speeds' is how wide they are.. ** Plan: keep checking it for wear 'stretch' 1 foot = 12" in length + ..
choices: Attachment, let it go til well worn then buy a cassette too which will wear faster with a worn chain.
Or Non-attachment, replace the chain as soon as it's out of best spec , put a new one on, extend the cassette teeth life..
** you don't have to buy a Campagnolo chain,, KMC may aide your non-attachment..
29 is bigger than 23, right?
Has common sense become rare?
choices: Attachment, let it go til well worn then buy a cassette too which will wear faster with a worn chain.
Or Non-attachment, replace the chain as soon as it's out of best spec , put a new one on, extend the cassette teeth life..
** you don't have to buy a Campagnolo chain,, KMC may aide your non-attachment..
29 is bigger than 23, right?
Has common sense become rare?
Has comprehension become rare?
#6
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Thread Starter
The wheel does need a bit of a truing job. Just a touch up.
I've done more tire changes recently than I care to count. And to make sure I don't ever get another flat I bought tubes in bulk recently. Once you have them you'll never need them, although I also bought bulk patches and cement a few years ago and have gone through a lot more than I'd have thought.
I've done more tire changes recently than I care to count. And to make sure I don't ever get another flat I bought tubes in bulk recently. Once you have them you'll never need them, although I also bought bulk patches and cement a few years ago and have gone through a lot more than I'd have thought.
#7
Banned
elevating to Meh..
wipe stuff off the side plates _It does not matter_ soon enough you will add (Infinite discussions past of 'best') chain lube to the rollers..
wipe stuff off the side plates _It does not matter_ soon enough you will add (Infinite discussions past of 'best') chain lube to the rollers..
Last edited by fietsbob; 09-14-20 at 04:51 PM.
#8
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Going up X number of links from what you are using on a different cassette is the wrong approach. Just go with big-big plus 2 links, bypassing the derailleur, as suggested, with your new cassette.
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#9
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I have had bad experience with Squirt on chains that I failed to get pristine enough before applying. If you want to save yourself hassle, MSW recommends cleaning the factory lube off before use, otherwise the cleaning process is much more involved.
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If I remember correctly Campagnolo manual says there should be 8 - 12 mm gap between chain and RD roller when the chain is on the smallest cog and the small chainring. You can search Internet for Campy manuals - they explain things OK.
As for Squirt - I tried it once and then had to thoroughly clean the whole drivetrain. This wax based lube gave me a lot of dirt all over. These days I use only dry cleaning lubes, like T-9 spray, I like my drivetrain clean.
As for Squirt - I tried it once and then had to thoroughly clean the whole drivetrain. This wax based lube gave me a lot of dirt all over. These days I use only dry cleaning lubes, like T-9 spray, I like my drivetrain clean.
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The factory lube is very good and usually one of the longest lasting lubes you can find. It does collect dirt if you're bothered by that. Do not put Squirt over factory lube. As previously mentioned it creates a mess when added to other non-wax lubes and won't add anything to improving lubrication.
#12
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OK, I'll leave the factory lube until it gets dirty.
There's been a lot of discussion over the years about Campy cassettes and derailleurs and what works. The consensus is that it will work with a 29 even if beyond spec. I'll try the chain as-is on the stand and go from there. If I need to add, I'll add 4 to start and if that is sloppy I'll take two off.
There's been a lot of discussion over the years about Campy cassettes and derailleurs and what works. The consensus is that it will work with a 29 even if beyond spec. I'll try the chain as-is on the stand and go from there. If I need to add, I'll add 4 to start and if that is sloppy I'll take two off.
#13
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I've found the opposite, Squirt keeps everything so clean I don't even worry about getting chain marks on my clothes.
#14
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After much research I bought a KMC chain for my Campy 8 speed De Rosa that I only ride once or twice a month. I cleaned it with a degreaser before oiling it with Park Synthetic chain lube, the only lube I had at the time.
The chain started to separate after about 175 miles (about 25 miles on each monthly ride.). I have now bought a Campy Record C9 replacement chain. I’m going to use it with the factory lube, then when it gets dirty I’ll probably just lube it with some oil based chain lube without soaking the chain. I don’t ride my De Rosa that much.
My KMC chain problem had nothing to do with lubrication, but I spent time soaking and removing the heavy factory lube and was disappointed that the chain broke. Fortunately no damage was done and I stopped pedaling as soon as I heard the chain hitting the RD cage and FD cage. My buddy had a chain tool. I now carry one along with a few Missing Links.
The Campy chain instructions say “Avoid using solvents. Clean chain regularly with a dry and clean cloth; lubricate with chain oil for bicycles.”
KMC X8.93 chain with about 175 miles on it.
The chain started to separate after about 175 miles (about 25 miles on each monthly ride.). I have now bought a Campy Record C9 replacement chain. I’m going to use it with the factory lube, then when it gets dirty I’ll probably just lube it with some oil based chain lube without soaking the chain. I don’t ride my De Rosa that much.
My KMC chain problem had nothing to do with lubrication, but I spent time soaking and removing the heavy factory lube and was disappointed that the chain broke. Fortunately no damage was done and I stopped pedaling as soon as I heard the chain hitting the RD cage and FD cage. My buddy had a chain tool. I now carry one along with a few Missing Links.
The Campy chain instructions say “Avoid using solvents. Clean chain regularly with a dry and clean cloth; lubricate with chain oil for bicycles.”
KMC X8.93 chain with about 175 miles on it.
Last edited by momoman; 09-15-20 at 11:42 AM. Reason: added picture
#15
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...I don't know how much you paid for your KMC 10 speed chain, nut the KMC 8 speed chains I buy and use are less than ten bucks apiece. Given that situation, I don't spend a whole lot of time stripping off the factory lube (which is excellent for my purposes) and applying something else.
If I do get one to the point where it looks like it needs cleaning, I either do the remove and shake in a soda bottle in mineral spirits thing, or (more likely), put it in a container of solvent in with a batch of other stuff into the ultrasonic cleaner, then relube with warmed up Chain-L and wipe off the stuff on the exterior of the chain, where all it does is collect dirt. Sometimes I just throw one away and start fresh...I find that a new one with the factory lube is good for at least a couple of thousand miles in my conditions. Not bad for under ten bucks.
If I do get one to the point where it looks like it needs cleaning, I either do the remove and shake in a soda bottle in mineral spirits thing, or (more likely), put it in a container of solvent in with a batch of other stuff into the ultrasonic cleaner, then relube with warmed up Chain-L and wipe off the stuff on the exterior of the chain, where all it does is collect dirt. Sometimes I just throw one away and start fresh...I find that a new one with the factory lube is good for at least a couple of thousand miles in my conditions. Not bad for under ten bucks.
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I follow Sheldon's advice on both accounts:
1) Ride till it needs lube. Apply lube. Wipe off excess. Ride. Repeat.
2) Big-big plus 1.
1) Ride till it needs lube. Apply lube. Wipe off excess. Ride. Repeat.
2) Big-big plus 1.
#17
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#18
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Or, grab Calvin Jones' hand and let him walk you through the super secret campy sizing method.
The difference between the two methods is like the difference between ******g, and making love.
The difference between the two methods is like the difference between ******g, and making love.
Last edited by Unca_Sam; 09-15-20 at 01:18 PM.
#19
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I follow his videos whenever I'm in doubt. They are a great resource.
#20
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Ok, I put the new cassette on and installed the chain. No muss, no fuss. The old chain was probably 2-3 links too long because I replaced the 53/39 with a 50/34 at some point and never shortened the chain. I used Calvin's method above and it fit perfectly without having to change the length. Also, the 29 cog doesn't have any problem with the short cage. So now I have a 34-29 low gear which should be enough for just about any riding I do. I hardly ever went in the 34-26 in the past anyway but I'm getting old (65). Also, this cassette gives me all the 21-23-26 that I ride in with the big ring but now one cog lower in position so I will cross chain less. I'll avoid the 50-29 combo whereas I would use the 50-26 combo in the past.
There was no cursing in this install, which is rare.
Now to take it for a ride.
wow. Much quieter and better shifting. And while I didn’t need the lowest gear for the ride I can tell it’ll be a nice addition for when I do.
There was no cursing in this install, which is rare.
Now to take it for a ride.
wow. Much quieter and better shifting. And while I didn’t need the lowest gear for the ride I can tell it’ll be a nice addition for when I do.
Last edited by zacster; 09-15-20 at 03:33 PM.
#22
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No secret, I just apply after a ride and let it dry overnight. Once dried there is nothing for the dirt to stick to. And the first ride after application will shed the excess. In the end you have wax, which doesn't absorb into anything, instead of oil, which will soak into anything it comes in contact with.
Having the factory lube on my chain now feels somewhat dirty to me in comparison even though it hasn't attracted road dirt to it yet.
Having the factory lube on my chain now feels somewhat dirty to me in comparison even though it hasn't attracted road dirt to it yet.
#23
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Ok, I put the new cassette on and installed the chain. No muss, no fuss. The old chain was probably 2-3 links too long because I replaced the 53/39 with a 50/34 at some point and never shortened the chain. I used Calvin's method above and it fit perfectly without having to change the length. Also, the 29 cog doesn't have any problem with the short cage. So now I have a 34-29 low gear which should be enough for just about any riding I do. I hardly ever went in the 34-26 in the past anyway but I'm getting old (65). Also, this cassette gives me all the 21-23-26 that I ride in with the big ring but now one cog lower in position so I will cross chain less. I'll avoid the 50-29 combo whereas I would use the 50-26 combo in the past.
There was no cursing in this install, which is rare.
Now to take it for a ride.
wow. Much quieter and better shifting. And while I didn’t need the lowest gear for the ride I can tell it’ll be a nice addition for when I do.
There was no cursing in this install, which is rare.
Now to take it for a ride.
wow. Much quieter and better shifting. And while I didn’t need the lowest gear for the ride I can tell it’ll be a nice addition for when I do.
#24
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Thread Starter
Can you clarify something? You say that you'll "avoid the 50-29 combo" - is that because you don't want to cross-chain or is it because that combination is beyond the capacity of your short-cage RD? I'm asking because I currently run a 51/39 crank with a 12/23 cassette - creating a chain wrap of 23, obviously well within the capacity of my 10sp Chorus medium-cage RD (nominal chain wrap cap. = 30). I'm contemplating switching in a compact (50/34) crank, which would up the chain wrap to 27, and I have a 13/29 cassette that I swap in for serious climbing days. The combination of the compact crank and the climbing cassette would push the chain wrap to 32 - technically beyond the capacity of my RD, but I haven't actually tested it. If your short-cage RD can handle this combo, then my medium-cage RD should have no problem, which would be very encouraging for my future climbing!
What I like is that the 21-23-26 tooth cogs are all a step lower on the cassette and cross chaining is much less of an issue with these now.
Last edited by zacster; 09-21-20 at 10:42 PM.
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#25
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I did the wheel truing last night because I could hear the ping, ping ping of a loose spoke. I also pulled the dish over to the non-drive side a bit so the larger tire wouldn't rub. I took it for a ride today and it was dead silent. I don't think my bike has ever been this silent before. And it shifts silently with the click. And since this is Campy it goes up and down multiple cogs silently too,