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Mandatory Helmet Law coming to Ontario - Anybody else have it???

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Mandatory Helmet Law coming to Ontario - Anybody else have it???

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Old 09-22-05, 09:32 PM
  #151  
chicharron
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Hi, I'm Uncle Buckle the Saftey Buffalo boys and girls. Can you go into the kitchen, real quietly, and call your local police, and tell them that daddy road his bicycle today without his helmet. OK, boys and girls?
 
Old 09-23-05, 03:20 AM
  #152  
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We have had compulsory helmet wearing for years in Australia. Not wearing a helmet is DUMB. Setting a bad example to kids by adults not wearing one is DUMBER.I have seen several serious bike crashes where the only thing between getting off Okay and dying was the effectiveness of a well designed an correctly worn helmet.
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Old 09-23-05, 03:48 AM
  #153  
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I was wondering when someone would mention Australia. The reported effect of compulsory helmets there was to drastically reduce the number of people cycling, particularly the young.

The overall effect on health is reckoned to be negative: fewer head injuries but more obesity & heart disease.

Helmets for kids, yes. Adults optional. Debate on this has been intense in the UK and this is the cyclists consensus.
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Old 09-23-05, 08:27 AM
  #154  
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Yeah, here's a fax from former transport minister, Alannah MacTiernan, WA's Minister of Planning and Infrastructure and a supporter of the bill.
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Old 09-24-05, 06:13 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by locky63red
We have had compulsory helmet wearing for years in Australia. Not wearing a helmet is DUMB. Setting a bad example to kids by adults not wearing one is DUMBER.I have seen several serious bike crashes where the only thing between getting off Okay and dying was the effectiveness of a well designed an correctly worn helmet.

The point is that the laws make helmets compulsory. Of course it is safer to wear a helmet. But, the fact that a person is on a public road, should not make a person object to compulsory saftey laws. Where is the logic. Can some one explain the rational? Of course if my public behavior is endangering another person, then my actions should be regulated. However, if I put my own self at risk, that is my business. Not yours!!
 
Old 09-25-05, 04:17 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
Yeah, here's a fax from former transport minister, Alannah MacTiernan, WA's Minister of Planning and Infrastructure and a supporter of the bill.
perth has enjoyed an increase in cycle commuting since this fax was issued (2000). all without any change to the mandatory helmet laws. the numbers, however, are no where near what is required to have have a sustainable community.

Anyway, back to the points raised in the fax. it is not reasonable to infer that there are health consequences due to the mandated helmet hair. especially since there are satisfactory alternatives to cycling, such as walking, which don't require helmet hair.

It needs to be accepted that a vast portion of our communities eat too much and spend too much time in the office or studying instead of excercising. Do you think that it is possible that the time that mandatory helmet laws were introduced in this country coincided with other factors such as "increased productivity" (read: unpaid overtime), the proliferation of home enterainment and the phonemenon that shopping can be considered a recreational activity???

cheers


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Old 09-25-05, 04:44 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by locky63red
We have had compulsory helmet wearing for years in Australia. Not wearing a helmet is DUMB. Setting a bad example to kids by adults not wearing one is DUMBER.I have seen several serious bike crashes where the only thing between getting off Okay and dying was the effectiveness of a well designed an correctly worn helmet.
Generally, the government shouldn't ban something just because it's "dumb." I know my helmet has protected my head a few times, but I can't say for certain that it saved me from anything other than a headache. I doubt anyone else really can either.

On the other hand, I really don't care if helmets can be proven or not proven to save lives--protection from pain is a good enough justification for me to continue to wear one.

Last edited by Daily Commute; 09-25-05 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 09-25-05, 09:05 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Martyr
perth has enjoyed an increase in cycle commuting since this fax was issued (2000). all without any change to the mandatory helmet laws.
True, but the numbers are still below what they were before the mandatory law, aren't they? And isn't the issue the countrys' level of cycling and their health since it was a national ban?


Originally Posted by Martyr
it is not reasonable to infer that there are health consequences due to the mandated helmet hair. especially since there are satisfactory alternatives to cycling, such as walking, which don't require helmet hair.
but is there a corresponding increase in walking? I think it's far more likely there's a corresponding increase in driving.


Originally Posted by Martyr
It needs to be accepted that a vast portion of our communities eat too much and spend too much time in the office or studying instead of excercising. Do you think that it is possible that the time that mandatory helmet laws were introduced in this country coincided with other factors such as "increased productivity" (read: unpaid overtime), the proliferation of home enterainment and the phonemenon that shopping can be considered a recreational activity???

cheers


marty
Well, I'm not too sure about that, but I do know in each area in the world that has introduced a mandatory helmet law, cycling has decreased. Seems reasonable to assume that the fax's acknowledgement of increased health problems from a drop in cycling is fair, just as it seems reasonable that a politician isn't going to admit to a mistake if enough people don't know anything about the mistake.

Last edited by closetbiker; 09-25-05 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 09-25-05, 03:37 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
And isn't the issue the countrys' level of cycling and their health since it was a national ban?
yes.
obesity and diabetes are on the rise. it has been described in the media as an epidemic. i do not believe that there is a case for case correlation between incident of diabetes and rejection of cycling. over that time, for example, we have started eating much more sugar in our diet and that has nothing to with head fashion. we are talking about very complex social dynamics.

Originally Posted by closetbiker
but is there a corresponding increase in walking? I think it's far more likely there's a corresponding increase in driving.
the increase in driving is a global phenomenon - you cannot correlate an increase in motoring with introduction of mandatory helmet laws. china for example is suffering a boom in motoring and car ownership. they dont have mandatory helmet laws.

and in any case, the rate of increase in motoring in perth and the rest of australia far exceeds the rate at which bike usage dropped at the time of HML introduction.


Originally Posted by closetbiker
Well, I'm not too sure about that, but I do know in each area in the world that has introduced a mandatory helmet law, cycling has decreased. Seems reasonable to assume that the fax's acknowledgement of increased health problems from a drop in cycling is fair, just as it seems reasonable that a politician isn't going to admit to a mistake if enough people don't know anything about the mistake.
it is politicking - a reaction to a local sentiment only. if the truth were known, she probably rode her bike in king's park at lunch time and had an embarrassing case of helmet hair during question time in the afternoon.and in any case the statement doesn't work both ways. there is a vast difference between saying on one hand:

> the benefits of cycling outway the risks; and the other:

> there is a correlation between poor health and reduction in cycling.

the first is probably true in most cases. the second is plain wrong. anyway, we had major health issues well before the intro of MHL. i believe that you can correlate any increase in poor health since MHL with an increase in micro$loth share values during that time. the sedentary life style we live (present company excluded) is more like the product of an electronic age than fear of helmet hair.

but now, i must ride my bike.

cheers

marty



cheers


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Old 09-25-05, 04:49 PM
  #160  
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I'll agree with much of what you say Marty, but I still think it is not unreasonable to assume that when a helmet law is implemented and enforced, those who don't have, or don't to want to wear, a helmet, will find other means of transport in the bicycles' place and most often that transport, for all it's pros and cons, is a car. I also think it's is not unreasonable to claim that it's healthier to ride a bike than drive a car (even considering the accident implications of each).

I'm not going to say there is a direct correlation between poor health of a nation and reduction in cycling alone, but I will say the benefits of cycling outway the risks and it's in the best interest of a nation to promote cycling to all it's citizens rather than discourage it.

If they are concerned about safety and cycling, I can't see how the govenment can't tie cycling education into it's driving tests and have police enforce existing traffic law.

Last edited by closetbiker; 09-25-05 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 09-29-05, 08:57 AM
  #161  
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There was a great political cartoon at the time when the Ontario government was preparing to ban pit bulls, junk food in schools and something else that I've forgotten. The cartoon featured the Liberal Premier getting up in the morning with a thought bubble which read "What shall I ban today?"

While I encourage helmet use, I don't have much time for our 'save us from ourselves' government.
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Old 09-29-05, 09:20 AM
  #162  
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"This bill is absolutely right," said Prue. "There isn't a day goes by that I don't see someone on the streets of Toronto, an adult, with no helmet on their head, and I want to get out of my car or off the sidewalk and I want to grab them and I want to shake them."

What's more dangerous? I'd be far more scared of this guy leaping out and shaking me, than falling off my bike.
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Old 05-23-08, 10:06 AM
  #163  
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So...to dredge up an old thread, this motion has passed and this law may be getting rammed down the throats of Ontarians.

https://www.toronto.ca/cycling/pdf/re...ets-121406.pdf

I found out about it while looking into "Bike Month" in Toronto, it was on the City of Toronto's web site.

I wrote the following letter to the MPP in question, I'mm be forwarding it to my MPP as well.

Dear Mr. Milloy

I am writing to congratulate you for being concerned with the safety of cyclists. As an avid cyclist in the City of Toronto, I am always glad to hear that politicians are taking this method of urban transportation seriously, especially given the recent increase in the price of crude oil. Unfortunately I cannot say that I agree with the motion you have put forth regarding mandatory helmet laws for cyclists in Ontario.

I have several reasons for this point of view, not the least of which is that Canadian citizens do not need more legislation in their lives. From a civil liberties point of view, I firmly believe we need less legislation dictating how we live our lives. Obviously there are certain times when a law is necessary to ensure the health and safety of the population as a whole, especially since our country enjoys universal health care. Legislation should only be applied in the most extreme of situations, when facts and data can justify the legislation. Some excellent examples of this would include seat belt laws and motorcycle helmet laws. As a motorist and a motorcycle enthusiast, I can honestly say that I would use these safety features with or without legislation. Cycling however is a different matter.

What kind of effect would mandatory bicycle helmet laws have on a population? What kind of decrease could we expect to see in hospitalization of bicycle related injuries in adults? These are the questions that need to be asked when contemplating legislation of this kind. Fortunately for Ontario, this kind of research has already been carried out for us. One needs only to examine the results and consequences of western Australia regarding mandatory helmet laws for bicycles. There has been a great deal of research done on this and it is readily available on the internet.

This is a quote from one web site:

"Surveys show Western Australia's mandatory helmet legislation reduced public cycling numbers by at least 30%, yet total hospitalised cyclist injuries did not decline at all. The reduction in head injury numbers was marginal. West Australian cyclist numbers recovered in the decade to 2000 but hospital admissions have been at record levels since 1997, roughly 30% above pre-law levels by 2000. In essence, the results strongly suggest that the mandatory wearing of helmets increases the risk of accidents and thus injuries."

the URL is https://www.cycle-helmets.com/

Obviously with a statement like the one above, we need to look at the larger picture and take into consideration other possible mitigating factors that could bring about this result. I personally don't believe that I am in more danger while wearing a bicycle helmet than when I am not wearing one. It is however, possible that the decreased number of cyclists on the roads would lead to less recognition by motorists of cyclists.

There are links to several other sites containing data regarding bicycle helmets on this site. I hope you take the time to research some of them on your own to help provide you with the bigger picture.

The major safety issue we are facing is, that when you mix cyclists and motorists, you are bound to have injuries and fatalities. This is a problem that cannot be killed with the magic bullet of a bicycle helmet. Forcing people to wear bicycle helmets will not solve the problem, especially when there are other more effective courses that can be taken in order to improve safety for cyclists.

The obvious, most difficult and most costly solution is the separate bicycle traffic from motorized traffic. Either with bicycle lanes on the streets or dedicated cycling paths off the roads altogether. Another, easier to implement solution, is to modify some of the existing motor vehicles to meet safety standards already in place in Europe. Safety barriers in the sides of large commercial trucks will help prevent deaths for cyclists and pedestrians alike. These are commonplace in European countries and studies undertaken in Canada have suggested that this safety measure be implemented here; it never was.

This is an example of what I am referring to: https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/u...tbiketruck.jpg

In the past 20-30 years Ontario has seen a large increase in motor vehicle traffic. It clogs our city streets and is an unsustainable method of transportation. Cycling, especially as an alternative form of transportation, should be encouraged. Cyclists should be able to feel safe cycling to work, the grocery store, the mall or to a local park with their children. Wearing a small piece of Styrofoam on your head will not make you feel safe when 18 wheelers, or even sub-compact cars whizz past you at 75 km/h, missing you by less than a foot. The culture in Ontario is that roads are for cars and cyclists should not be on them. This also needs to change in order to ensure the safety of cyclists and is also a difficult task to achieve.

Events like "Bike Month" in Toronto are a step in the right direction but they are not enough. Motorists need to start to see cycling as a form of transportation, not a form of recreation. Motor vehicles and their operators both require license to operate on Ontario's highways, cyclists do not. The ability to freely move about, under your own power, is more than just a transportation issue, it is a human rights issue. If they obey the rules of the road, cyclists have the right to be there, motor vehicles have permission. At least that is the way I see it.

I do agree with you that bicycle helmets are more than just a good idea; however I feel that I must caution you that, by forcing people to wear helmets, you may be taking more bicycles off the road and putting more cars on them. Increased cycling can help Ontario battle it's health problems and it's traffic problems at the same time. I would hate to see well intentioned legislation impede our progress in these areas. Forcing laws on people and threatening them with financial punishment, in the form of fines, will cause people to move away from the threat of conviction; it will cause them to think twice about taking their bicycle instead of taking their car. Given the obesity and fuel crises that face our province, we need to do all that we can to encourage people to cycle instead of driving to their destination.

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter and I certainly hope you also take the time to research this idea before legislating it.
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Old 05-23-08, 10:27 AM
  #164  
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Off the top of my head, I believe this attempt was nixed. Still, the link has a date on it past the date of the previous failure

Skimming over the link I noticed that although the motion was carried, it didn't show what the votes were or if it officially was passed.

I googled the law and came up with this page

https://therecord.blogs.com/take_the_...le-helmet.html

with a date of April 24, 2008 on it that said

I called around to check, just in case someone was trying to slip through a regulation change without any fanfare. Pretty unlikely, but you can never be sure.

No dice. Those 18 and older still are not compelled by law to wear a bicycle helmet. Compelled by common sense, perhaps, but not by law.
A couple of times there has been attempts to have adults legislated to wear helmets but it has never passed the legislature vote.

Interesting that after BCs and the maritime provinces laws were passed, every other attempt has failed. Maybe people learned something.

Last edited by closetbiker; 05-23-08 at 01:44 PM.
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