non-fixie 

I thought I had pretty much every conceivable FW removal tool by now, but apparently not.

This is a Sachs-Maillard 6-speed I found last week, which has six rather narrow splines:

juvela

-----

that is a new one on me as well

Maillard ceased play thirty-two year in the rear view mirror so it may be a bit of a challenge...

will be interest to follow along for the answer


----

non-fixie 

I think I may have actually found it. Sachs-Huret part 2652.

Courtesy of Retrobikefranken.de. Who are out of stock, unfortunately.

pastorbobnlnh 

This is a new one on me as well. Can you post a picture of the spoke side of the freewheel? Do the threads for the hubs really meet the splines for the removal tool?

WGB 

I am in the Dominican Republic until Sunday.

"Believe" I have at least one if not two of those bad boys.

non-fixie 

Actually, I believe it has never been used. There isn't a scratch on it, and it is covered in what feels like the original factory sticky stuff.

And I will mount it anyway, as it will probably outlive me.

With pleasure. And yes, they do. I don't think the notches of the tool will reach down that far, though. More of an ease-of-manufacturing kind of decision, is what it looks to me.

non-fixie 

When scrolling down, at first I only saw this first sentence of your reply, and was amazed you'd found a way to set an out-of-office reply on the forum.

cyclophilia 

Thank you for sharing this.

I have been playing with bicycle shaped objects since 1972 and had never seen this style of remover...

until now.

WGB 

@non-fixie

At the height of COVID I was experimenting with alcohol and I was checking FB ads and a fellow in Washington DC had I think it was 20 freewheel tools for $50 + shipping. I've sold or traded most. I kept a couple of oddities and the ones no one wanted.

As for the "out of office reply", I was sitting by the pool admiring the new styles of Ultra tiny bikinis while drinking "resort shots" and I burnt myself a bit. Since I couldn't go back in the sun for a bit I needed something to do and began surfing BF. .......

microcord

I'm more amazed by the triviality of the differences in pattern among several of the removers. In the last three years or so, I've bought four five-speed 14-28 SunRace freewheels. The black pair take 12-spline Park Tools FR-7 (which is silver); the silver pair take 12-spline Park Tools FR-1.3 (which is black); I also have a Shimano freewheel, which takes a slightly different 12-spline tool (which luckily for me says "Shimano").

pastorbobnlnh 

@non-fixie I wish you were located here in the US and shipping would be affordable. I'd like to offer a free trip to the Freewheel Spa just so I can open it up and see if there are any internal differences from the Sachs Aris models. The notches on the ends of the sprocket teeth are the same.

non-fixie 

Thanks! Much appreciated. But mounted on a sturdy touring wheel chances are slim that it will ever need to come off during my lifetime.

MikeJeezy

Wow that's an odd one

sbarner 

I've got one of those removers. I bought it after collapsing my Normandy tool in a vise after the Atom remover slipped out of it it. Now I know what the other end is for! I also have a 8-spline remover of similar size that I've never used. I always assumed it was for some BMX freewheel, but may never know.

Any truly talented engineer, once they had seen the thinwall Shimano freewheel remover, would have said "That's it, boys, we're done," and switched to designing sewing machines. Why Shimano altered that tool ever so slightly for their cassette lockrings and not just standardized on what was proven excellent is beyond me. With Sachs, I imagine their proliferation of remover styles was to avoid licensing fees and/or to save a fraction of a cent in manufacturing. The evolution of components within that company always made me think that the accountants wielded more clout than the designers.

juvela

-----



...life was a bit simpler prior their acquisition of Freres Huret...


-----

WGB 

I looked at the one I kept (thought I had two, might have traded or gifted it).

Mine doesn't have the lugs at the one end as shown in "Sprocket-Remover" photo and the inner grooves don't run as deep. It also has two flats for a wrench and is missing the big lug where the blue 8 is handwritten.
Having said that, it still looks very close and might work for this freewheel.

The question then is: Is mine a variation of the 2652 or is it a completely new monster????

WGB 

Update:

The Atom Freewheel tool fits perfectly into this tool. It's resting on a pen cap to keep it in view. The threads match. Maybe somehow related????

JohnDThompson 

Yes, it's designed to be used with the VAR-406 Atom freewheel remover/handle:

JohnDThompson 

The Zeus thin-wall remover tool actually pre-dates Shimano's. It fits Zeus, Atom, and later production Regina and Caimi/Everest freewheels without requiring locknut removal from Campagnolo Record, Zeus, or Phil hubs.




Lots of mysteries. Why, for example, did Campagnolo design a unique, proprietary helical prong remover for their freewheel when it came out, instead of using the already established Zeus or Shimano thin-wall splined designs?

WGB 

JohnDThompson

Not understanding.

Is the long tool I posted a variant of the Sachs Huret 2652 tool posted by @non-fixie?

sbarner 

I left out the thin-wall Atom removers for a reason--the Shimano was better. You have to be careful that you don't collapse the Atom-splined removers, while the Shimano is just enough thicker that it proves more robust in service. The thin-walled Atom removers were a modification of an existing design to fix the problem of getting the freewheel off a hub that lacked an exposed hex. In short, it was a kludge. Shimano designed their slightly larger spline and its remover from scratch to avoid this issue entirely.

Campagnolo's helical remover was intended to resolve the problems of notched freewheel removers camming out the freewheel body. Since their body was to be made from aluminum, they didn't want to use a spline that might strip out, so they developed their own remover that would have a firm purchase on the notches. No mystery there, and anyone who was going to use a freewheel of this level wasn't going to kick because it used a special tool. It was the rest of the freewheel tool kit that left me scratching my head. Not that I don't want one, but you can do pretty much anything you want with a chain whip and a decent freewheel vise. (Yes, I realize these were really for race mechanics to use in the field, but it would seem more expedient and cheaper just to bring along some extra freewheels.)

wesmamyke

I've had this big giant FW removal tool for years and never used it. That's got to be the same six prong sort of thing. Other tools shown for scale.