Carbon handlebars
#76
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,162
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10522 Post(s)
Liked 12,088 Times
in
6,190 Posts
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,030
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7082 Post(s)
Liked 11,180 Times
in
4,775 Posts
I think the Chinese manufacturers have every incentive to make safe products. While they may not be able to be sued, bad quality unsafe products will be publicized on the internet. And basic desire to make a good product. Etc.
Unless the major brands are also running these parts through an ultrasound machine, how would their qc be much better?
Unless the major brands are also running these parts through an ultrasound machine, how would their qc be much better?
Likes For Koyote:
#78
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,689
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4525 Post(s)
Liked 5,028 Times
in
3,108 Posts
I think the Chinese manufacturers have every incentive to make safe products. While they may not be able to be sued, bad quality unsafe products will be publicized on the internet. And basic desire to make a good product. Etc.
Unless the major brands are also running these parts through an ultrasound machine, how would their qc be much better?
Unless the major brands are also running these parts through an ultrasound machine, how would their qc be much better?
The major brands work to recognised professional standards which guarantees a safe product of reasonable quality. Occasionally things do go wrong and then you get product recalls. But none of this applies to random Chinese knockoffs. They really don’t care if your bar snaps like a carrot and puts you on your face.
Likes For PeteHski:
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,036
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3997 Post(s)
Liked 7,486 Times
in
3,012 Posts
/s
Likes For tomato coupe:
#81
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,765
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4445 Post(s)
Liked 4,101 Times
in
2,737 Posts
I think the Chinese manufacturers have every incentive to make safe products. While they may not be able to be sued, bad quality unsafe products will be publicized on the internet. And basic desire to make a good product. Etc.
Unless the major brands are also running these parts through an ultrasound machine, how would their qc be much better?
Unless the major brands are also running these parts through an ultrasound machine, how would their qc be much better?
You don't need to run things through an ultrasound machine, you need to do proper product testing and use quality materials and production methods you wouldn't be making a product to be cheap and look like something better just on the outside. You would probably first be designing these parts in CAD programs and using FEA before it is even produced then you have test products and all sorts of stuff to make sure your product is quality. Then you are going to have warranties so if something does happen they will make it right. If something happens to say Ritchey there will be a recall on the product and they will issue new products or credits or something and they will have a reputation to repair as needed.
A random no-name seller has no real reputation beyond just shipping the product in a timely fashion to get a 4-5 star review on the website that someone else runs. Even then they can say well it was shipping delays going from China to the U.S. and having to get through customs and all of that stuff so they can just deny that there was an issue and be done with it. They have no real worries and if someone does go after them it is unlikely a news story will break anywhere and nobody will really follow up on anything and those buying from Alibaba and his 40 thieves will just buy elsewhere not knowing anything or continue buying from that same seller. You didn't research the company involved because you didn't care to, it is beyond cheap and that is all you care about and that is really all anyone cares about.
Likes For veganbikes:
#82
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,664
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4760 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
1,011 Posts
https://www.youtube.com/@LuescherTeknik/videos
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,457
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18506 Post(s)
Liked 15,819 Times
in
7,428 Posts
Likes For indyfabz:
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,557
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7674 Post(s)
Liked 3,552 Times
in
1,868 Posts
No-name manufacturers have every incentive ... to make money. No one knows the name ... they have no reputation to lose.
As I understand it ... a lot of engineers get out of college in China and need cash. They decide to reverse-engineer some cheap products, form a company, and sell knock-offs ... hard to picture, I know.
After a few years, everyone is ready to move on to either bigger firms, new ventures, or to escape lawsuits. Just kidding. There are no law suits because by the time the products hi whatever internet retailers, there is no legal connection to the shell corp which has its name on the product. Also, most of the stuff is sold overseas, and foreign customers who have enough money to navigate the Chinese legal system are not buying on Temu or Ali-Express. The bribes are astronomical .....
Tech equipment is cheap enough (or available enough--companies can rent theirs or sell it when they dissolve) and since there is no reason to stay with a start-up, engineers form endless strings of start-ups, hoping to at least keep the bills paid and Maybe get lucky enough to hit on a product which the market is eager for to make some bigger cash.
It isn't that these companies Try top produce trash ... it is just that when it comes to going the extra yard for quality or cutting a few corners, the immediate payoff dictates cutting corners. If some of the workers have substance abuse problems, or are just bored and depressed factory workers who don't care so long as the check clears each week ....
A few companies Do stick around ... Toseek would be one ( ) And while there are a few failures, t5here are no lawsuits (they are still buried in communist China) and also ... "publicized on the internet"???? That is what this thread is. So far I am not seeing a big impact on Toseek's production.
And if there were to be a big internet complaint .... say, if a whole run of products, not just a few, failed catastrophically ... We would then se "Tozeek" or "Toseak" parts hit the market.
Likes For Maelochs:
#86
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,664
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4760 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
1,011 Posts
A few companies Do stick around ... Toseek would be one ( ) And while there are a few failures, t5here are no lawsuits (they are still buried in communist China) and also ... "publicized on the internet"???? That is what this thread is. So far I am not seeing a big impact on Toseek's production.
And if there were to be a big internet complaint .... say, if a whole run of products, not just a few, failed catastrophically ... We would then se "Tozeek" or "Toseak" parts hit the market.
And if there were to be a big internet complaint .... say, if a whole run of products, not just a few, failed catastrophically ... We would then se "Tozeek" or "Toseak" parts hit the market.
#87
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,689
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4525 Post(s)
Liked 5,028 Times
in
3,108 Posts
I know this thread is supposedly just Carbon-related, but there has been a good amount of chatter on TPU tubes these days, and seemingly many folks willing to try the no-name stuff (e.g. RideNow and Cyclami). These 'no names' however are gettng close to the point I think where we can say they now have a name.
Likes For PeteHski:
#88
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,756
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3752 Post(s)
Liked 5,674 Times
in
2,862 Posts
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,557
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7674 Post(s)
Liked 3,552 Times
in
1,868 Posts
I know this thread is supposedly just Carbon-related, but there has been a good amount of chatter on TPU tubes these days, and seemingly many folks willing to try the no-name stuff (e.g. RideNow and Cyclami). These 'no names' however are getting close to the point I think where we can say they now have a name.
Here in the US we have seen major brands do major recalls .... forks and other essential items ... and keep right on rolling .... same in China but it costs less because, no need to recall or reimburse, no regulations and no reputation. "RideNow" becomes "NowRide" and as long as they are they are among the cheapest ... people will buy them. And probably their quality was, is, and will be on par with everyone else's ..... And after all, they got a name because they were cheap and people bought them and they worked well enough. Toseek could call itself Tossoff and so long as it had attractive pricing it would be financially sound no matter how many time that photo of assploded Toseek gets posted.
IMO.
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,557
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7674 Post(s)
Liked 3,552 Times
in
1,868 Posts
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Fargo ND
Posts: 918
Bikes: Time Scylon, Lynskey R350, Ritchey Breakaway, Ritchey Double Switchback, Lynskey Ridgeline, ICAN Fatbike
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked 557 Times
in
314 Posts
Am I the only one who remembers when a high dollar USA brand mentioned here as a "Quality" brand of carbon fiber components had a couple of wheels fail when being tested by a certain roseate bicycle web site? Or the time some folks who CNC their frames out of forged aluminum had a swing arm fail for the same web site? I have had a carbon fiber seat post fail on my hardtail. And an aluminum handlebar on a road bike...
I once had a suspension bolt shear on a cute little two seat European car associated with quality, probably due to a previous owner's low quality workmanship. The bolt installed was not of the grade specified the shop manual.
So, absolutely do look around. There are people who review bike stuff who post it when it fails. The roseate web site was one when I was reading it. Not sure now that they have gone "corporate". Hate him all you like, but the Orange Squirrel does post some truly horrid QC fails. So do a few others: Peak Torque and DC Rainmaker both used to but I haven't read them in a while. Hopefully they still do.
And the seat post that failed under me? I have four of them. Still have them on road bikes, but none on any hardcore off road bike. And the ICAN seat post on my fat bike survived another winter of abuse.
I once had a suspension bolt shear on a cute little two seat European car associated with quality, probably due to a previous owner's low quality workmanship. The bolt installed was not of the grade specified the shop manual.
So, absolutely do look around. There are people who review bike stuff who post it when it fails. The roseate web site was one when I was reading it. Not sure now that they have gone "corporate". Hate him all you like, but the Orange Squirrel does post some truly horrid QC fails. So do a few others: Peak Torque and DC Rainmaker both used to but I haven't read them in a while. Hopefully they still do.
And the seat post that failed under me? I have four of them. Still have them on road bikes, but none on any hardcore off road bike. And the ICAN seat post on my fat bike survived another winter of abuse.
#92
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,030
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7082 Post(s)
Liked 11,180 Times
in
4,775 Posts
Likes For Koyote:
Likes For Camilo:
#94
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,756
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3752 Post(s)
Liked 5,674 Times
in
2,862 Posts
Yes, very cool! Never thought of using it for other than birds. You don't find BFer's breadth of knowledge on other hobby sites.
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,030
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7082 Post(s)
Liked 11,180 Times
in
4,775 Posts
Likes For Koyote: