hotbike

This one hits close to home. I was just riding in Floral Park two weeks ago. In fact, I saw a sign which indicates a road test area, I'll post it at the end:

https://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...mDYwBL7IEF1tcM

Excerpt:
"A Long Island teen out for a driving lesson with her mother ran over and killed a 9-year-old boy as he pedaled his bike along a sidewalk Thursday night, cops said.
"I just held his hand and told him to hang in there," witness Tony Blas, 28, who tried to comfort the fading child, said yesterday. "But his eyes were already gone. His pulse was barely there. I'll never forget that little boy's face."
Andrew Burrous was riding his bike on a sidewalk in Floral Park at 6:22 p.m. His mother, who was walking their two dogs, was several..."


Read more: https://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...#ixzz1MKulD7lD



I don't know if the teenage driver was practicing for the road test, but probably was. Maybe has nothing to do with the accident. I photographed this sign, but it might be a few miles from where the accident happened, for all I know.

I think the age to get a drivers license should be raised, 16 is too young.

cyanemi

Very sad

sharrn

I agree, It seems like kids these days just get dumber and dumber. I'm not old either(24 for another couple months). But Some sort of IQ test geared toward general knowledge should be enforced, along with raising the license age to atleast 21.

fuji86

Another problem too is being a young driver on Long Island, NY. A veteran driver would have a difficult time on the streets of NYC at certain times of peak traffic. At the end of the day, every motorist needs to realize, the car takes the hit for human beings, especially pedestrians. What I find appalling is there was no traffic citation issued, it's part of the process. As unpleasant as being rear ended is, that young driver & mother needed to brace themselves for that collision, not the one where they go on the sidewalk, mow down a child and still crash into a parked car while they are at it. Speeding up wasn't that driver's solution, hitting the brakes and stopping was, let the driver of the vehicle that came up upon them fast take the responsibility & accountability for any accident that was to occur.

oban_kobi

^ agreed. There should be driving simulators, much as they have for training airplane pilots. They could create scenarios such as this. It's far too dangerous to practice in the real world, especially when your instincts are terrible.

DGozinya

FTA...No criminal charges? Huh?

bigboyd937

I couldn't agree with this anymore. I'm 18 years old and just got my license back in October, my parents were trying to get me to take the test at 16 but i refused. There was no way i was ready for it then, and if it wasn't for driving back and forth to college everyday now i probably still wouldn't have my license. I wish they would raise the age, what you said about kids getting dumber and dumber is so true.

hotbike

Another thing, kids today ride in the back seat, on account of the airbag issue. When I was a kid, I sat in the front seat of my Dads car, and watched the movements of the other drivers on the road. We are living in a nanny state, and the kids are indeed, as you have pointed out, getting dumber and dumber.

exile

I really don't know if the NYS DL age needs to be raised. I was driving when I was 15 (illegally of course, and didn't get a license until I was 18 (it was a pretty small rural town)). However this teen does not sound like she needs to be operating a motor vehicle for a while.

To speed up because a car is behind you is absurd. Then continue onto the sidewalk, strike 2 people (killing one) and then smashing into a parked car and then parking is ridiculous. I'm glad she is remorseful, but someone in that car (whether the girl or the mother) should have realized the teen just wasn't ready.

____asdfghjkl

That is a very sad story. :[

I got my license at 16 or 17 but I did not get to drive until I was 20 while my brother purchased his own car at 17 and drove whenever he wanted. I was still commuting by bike.
I think in drivers ed students are not getting enough practice - parents are supposed to let their kids practice with them but with gas prices I'm sure parents don't want to. My parents did not let me practice at home and the only time I got to practice was when I was with the driving instructor and that was a nightmare. We never had any talk about cyclists in class but I did tell the instructor they probably should. I remember when I was in the car with another student he drove on the bike lane a couple of times. :/

I feel like people these days don't know how to use their mirrors, how to scan the road and drive as if the road is just straight and all you have to look for is whether the light is green or red.

I believe I am an excellent driver and some times I can be too careful. My brother is also an excellent driver but he also has this need for speed which also pisses me off. He is too stubborn and won't listen to me. Well, I don't know what to do. It's like if you're in driver's ed you're well behaved in the class but when you get out on your own you do whatever you want because you're kind of not under authority. I don't know if that makes any sense. They should have some cyclist ride on the bike lane during the driving test lol.

I like the simulator idea. I don't know what an IQ test would do.

HoustonB

Apologies for being off-topic.

"I couldn't agree with this anymore". This means you agreed in the past, but no longer agree. You should have written "I couldn't agree with this more" i.e. you completely agree.

"I'm 18 years old and just got my license back in October ...". So you got your license back after losing it, or you acquired a license for the first time back in October? It's a rhetorical question, used to highlight your ambiguity.

The irony of your conclusion aside (and back on topic) - I agree with you completely. Also training in a simulator and passing a basic simulated driving skills test, followed by a closed-road test - before before being allowed out on a real road would be an improvement.

bigboyd937

i feel like everyone else understood what i saying..and that picking everything i said apart was unnecessary, but thats alright. if you take everything out of the context its in..sure i guess you could ask questions about whether i lost my license and what not, but in context its pretty clear that i didn't lose it. Instead i chose to wait until 18. BUT just so everything is clear, i am 18 years old. i waited until i was 18 to get my license, rather than getting it at 16. and i agree completely with the fact that our youth is getting dumber and dumber. i hope you now understand what i was saying. :] haha

Dahon.Steve

This story made me sick to my stomach. I could not believe the mother let this 16 year old girl get behind of an SUV?? What even happened to having teens start practicing in small cars? Common sense folks was clearly lacking.

What ever happened to driving schools? I remember 20 years ago we had driving schools where the instructor would take you to an empty parking lot and you would practice there for an day before you were let out on the streets. In fact, the instructor of my car had an extra brake pedal to stop the car and I remember driving schools where the car had two stearing wheels! Incredible.

MLKATO

Kids here can get a driver's licence at 14,at least they used too. I still think they can,if they have a work permit and have taken a driver's education class. They should raise the Federal age to 18,but will probably never happen.It scares me even today when I see kids barely able to see over the dashboard operating a motor vehicle.

____asdfghjkl

That's what we had except we didn't have the extra steering wheel.

There are a lot of people who skip driver's ed! It's spensy and a few driving schools here have closed down.

I thought driver's ed was a good class though, but driving with my parents was a different story even though we drove at night when there was less traffic. I guess I'm saying is when I was driving with my driver's ed instructor I was at ease but with my parents I was a nervous wreck.
While both paid attention to me I was given advice instead of being criticized at the end of driver's ed but my parents just yelled at me the whole time. Instructors have to follow a curriculum and parents just tell their kids what to do on their own terms/how they've been driving their whole life. Maybe the parents need driver's ed.

Digital_Cowboy

As with everyone else, I'd like to know why this gal wasn't practicing in a parking lot somewhere, instead of on the public streets? I also agree that driving simulators like what they have for airplanes is an excellent idea.

And as I am sure I'm not the only one I would like to know WHY there are no charges being pressed against her and/or her mother. In a case like this being as the mother was instructing her daughter in how to drive shouldn't she take some of the responsibility for the crash?

Unreasonable

Hey now. I hate to read an awful story like this, but this isn't good reasoning. Good driving ability comes from experience, not age (to a reasonable degree). Once a person is of the age where they can reason under pressure, how long they have to wait to get the experience isn't a factor.

A 12 year old shouldn't get a license, of course, because they are not able to make the split second decisions that sometimes are required. But a 16 year old? Once they get the experience via driving school and such, they are just as ready for a license as an 18 year old would be in the same situation.

If we make people wait two extra years for the process to start, that just means 18 year olds will be getting into accidents instead of 16 year olds.

JPprivate

AMEN!!! Glad somebody said that...

DGozinya

One consequence of the de-ruralization of America is that the vast majority of kids never get any seat time in ANY type of vehicle before the keys to the SUV are handed over to them. Before I got my license, and yes when I had an onion attached to my belt, I had driven lawn tractors, tractors, ATVs (3 wheels and lived!), skid loaders, backed two wagons at a time into a barn...all before getting behind a car's steering wheel. This gave me confidence in controlling the vehicle. That part wasn't new, which allowed me to concentrate on that which was new - the environment around me. The girl's reaction to gun it might have worked if she had an ounce of vehicular control.

Digital_Cowboy

Here in St. Pete we have this nice little thing where if a student misses too many days of school or drops out of school their driver's license can be suspended or revoked. I'm not saying that it applies in this case. But I think that that is a damn good idea. And one that more cities/counties/states need to adopt.

Also at 16 how much experience does she have in making "split second" decisions?

One thing that I don't think would be a bad idea is that starting at 14 or 15 have kids start taking drivers ed in school NO "road trips," start with the laws of the road, simulator time, etc. As well as starting in 1st Grade bringing back bicycle riding education. And continue it on up to graduation from High School. At around 12 - 13 or so have them (give or take) have them taking their bikes out on the road in a controlled and supervised environment.

Once they hit 15 or 16 and depending on their attendance. They are allowed to get their learner's permit and start taking lesson's out on the road. As well as having to complete obstacle courses. Courses that get harder each year.

They should also have to wait until they graduate before they are able to test to get their full license. Also they should not automatically get a discount just taking drivers ed in school. They should have to obtain a given score on their drivers license test both written and road test.

If at any time while they have their learner's permit they are involved in a crash, or receive a single traffic ticket ticket, be it speeding, parking, or what have, they have to start over again at the basics. If after graduating and obtaining their full driver's license they rack up x-number of traffic tickets and/or are involved in a crash their license is restricted and they have to take a remedial course.

Also for adults if they get any kind of traffic ticket instead of being able to go to "traffic school" to "avoid" getting any points on his or her license. They should be required to attend traffic school AND still get the points.

It would also be nice if for those who have proven themselves to habitually break the law(s) i.e. DWI/DUI, speeding, crashes, road rage, etc. they should NOT be able to apply for a restricted or work license or whatever they want to call it. if one has lost their license they should lose their license and NOT get it back until they can show that they can operate a car within the law. They should also have to petition the court and show proof that they have completed driver's education. But if they have a DWI/DUI they should never be able to drive again.

Unreasonable

I fully agree with most of what you say, and I'd love to see more work put in to receive a license. I know in much of Europe, licenses are a major investment (to the tune of $1500 or so), so people take a lot more care in not losing them.

I sure would love to see more training starting earlier, but at the same time I still don't think raising limitations on getting a full license is the best way. By 16 (sophomore/junior year), students begin to get more serious part time jobs, often motorized transportation is a necessity/near necessity. Public transportation would be great if it was everywhere, but sadly it's not.

I know when I got my first part time job during junior year, I was very thankful I had a license and a motor vehicle, as I constantly transported computer equipment around a school district. Many students may be very restricted with time to get from school to their job, and a bicycle or walking, while much better/safer, may not be an option. Getting rides from friends may, and I know many who did that, but I honestly don't think it's reasonable to restrict it to that.

You brought up the idea about how good the judgement and reaction ability is for a 16 year old, and I think it's the same as it is for an 18 year old given the same amount of training and experience. As a personal example: I got my license at the earliest possible in MA, 16 and a half. I was involved in my first (and, knock on wood, only) "at fault" accident (my brakes failed so... blah) when I was 18. Had I not received my license until I was 18, would the situation have been the same? Probably, given the same circumstances.

In MA, people can get their license at 16 and a half, with the restriction that until they are 18, they cannot drive between 12:30 and, if I remember correctly, 6:00. Also, if they get a traffic violation, they do incur more serious penalties. I believe their license gets suspended. Thankfully I haven't gotten one, so I don't have first hand experience with that.

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. I believe training should be more, the cost (and thus urge to not lose your license) should be more, and the penalties should be higher (... well, not parking). But, like I said, I still think the age is about right.

Digital_Cowboy

I agree I don't think that raising the age to 18 will do much good. As it's been pointed out if we did that we'd just have 18 yr olds with the same problems.

What we need is more and better education. Given what is at stake if we let inexperienced drivers out on the road one would think that that would be a no brainer.

I also agree with you that sadly public transportation isn't as widespread as it should be. City planners need to do a better job of designing and laying out routes for public transportation. I know there are those who don't think that public transportation "pays for itself." But that's only because they set the fares and routes so that it's impractical for people to rely on it. Again, what the city planners need to do is to plan routes and set fares so that public transportation is more not less attractive to owning a private car. It also wouldn't hurt if rail systems and bus lines shared transfer stations.

So that say in a new city being built we have the Amtrack train pulling into it's terminal there is both a Greyhound bus terminal as well as the local bus system all share the same terminal. That way when a person get's off of the train they have the option of taking the Greyhound or local public bus to their destination. As in say John Q. Public pulls into town if he wants to go to the next town down the road he can take the Greyhound, or the local bus to his house. Or he can stay on the Amtrack to the next county or state.

Each major shopping center should also be a transfer station. That way if a passenger wants to go from mall-to-mall they can do so easily. They also need to run late enough so that people can easily get to and from work, shopping, etc.

billdsd

As others have said, we need better education. The education we have is pathetically inadequate.

To get a learners permit to drive on the road you should be required to:

1. Get a perfect score on a written test -- and that test should be tougher than the current test to get a license; which also needs to be tougher.
2. One you pass #1 above, then you'd have to pass a physical driving test on a closed course area much like a real driving test but without the worry of hitting pedestrians, bicyclists, other vehicles, stationary objects etc.

We need good computer driver training simulators. The racing simulators are pretty good now. Why not a driver training simulator with good physics and traffic simulation? If we could get those good enough, then passing a proficiency exam on one of those could also be a requirement before you could even take the test to get a learner's permit.

All permit tests could be administered by accredited driving schools to avoid time with the DMV.

B. Carfree

As much as I think people who kill with cars should be hanged twice, the de-criminalization of traffic offenses makes it difficult to charge someone on a learner's permit with anything. She didn't have any skills; she didn't even have the ability to know the risks of her actions.

Something related to this happened in my neighborhood. A driver on a learner's permit smashed into a car that was stopped at a red light, totaling both cars. His foot slipped off the brake and onto the accelerator in part because he was wearing soccer cleats. Because he was on a permit, he got no ticket but it did end up on his driving record. Six months later (now licensed), he got a ticket for driving without wearing his seat belt. He also got cited for the bong on the seat. Another six months later, once he got his license back, he drove down our residential street at 60-70 mph. Lucky for him, the father of four who witnessed this cooled down before he found him.

Some people should not be allowed to drive. Many of them will show their true colors before they get their license. This girl seems to be one of those people.

invisiblehand

I know that area.

Broadly, I think that the differences between a 16-year-old and 18-year-old are pretty minimal. Instead, I think that the idea of "learning by doing" with motor vehicles is just insane. How we teach young people to drive is just fundamentally wrong.