Major issues with SRAM Red eTap front derailleur
08-30-16, 01:39 PM
#51
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I believe it depends on the crank arm itself if it comes with the intergraded pre load or not. My 2015 Red 22 BB30 non eTap graphic required wavy washers. My 2016 Quarq/Red 22 BB30 non eTap graphics came with the pre load.
Regardless of which one the crank arm uses, if you fail to adjust the preload correctly, it will move side to side and also creek.
OP, you can tell right away if you have the intergraded preload by looking at the BB near your NDS crank arm. If there is this large plastic nut in between your BB and the crank arm you have it.
Regardless of which one the crank arm uses, if you fail to adjust the preload correctly, it will move side to side and also creek.
OP, you can tell right away if you have the intergraded preload by looking at the BB near your NDS crank arm. If there is this large plastic nut in between your BB and the crank arm you have it.
08-30-16, 02:01 PM
#52
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I'm saying I haven't seen a Red 22 2016 crankset that uses the wavy washer. I see no reason why a wavy washer would be used with the preload adjuster, regardless of what SRAM HQ says (and since OP never provided any image we are just guessing any way.) My guess is there exists an OEM version of the crank that lacks the preload adjuster and that's what OP has (and the LBS I assume never saw one either and that's why they didn't pick up on the need if my guess is correct).
scott s.
.
scott s.
.
The BB30 Red 22 crankset with an integrated spider (which is what the OP has - see pic in post #22) is installed with a wavy washer and spacers - sans preload adjuster.
The crank ships with an install manual (also available here) which the LBS tech would have read, understood and followed if he was doing his job.
Last edited by velociraptor; 08-31-16 at 07:40 AM.
08-31-16, 12:19 PM
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Well, just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The BB30 Red 22 crankset with an integrated spider (which is what the OP has - see pic in post #22) is installed with a wavy washer and spacers - sans preload adjuster.
The crank ships with an install manual (also available here) which the LBS tech would have read, understood and followed if he was doing his job.
The BB30 Red 22 crankset with an integrated spider (which is what the OP has - see pic in post #22) is installed with a wavy washer and spacers - sans preload adjuster.
The crank ships with an install manual (also available here) which the LBS tech would have read, understood and followed if he was doing his job.
scott s.
.
08-31-16, 01:35 PM
#55
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When I was a teenager(1979) I wanted to put a different steering wheel on my pick up. So I headed to my Uncles weekend shop were he built hot rods and such. He was a diesel mechanic by trade. Anyways he instructed me to go buy a horn kit for the new steering wheel. So I did, I came back and he said or you gonna help I said of course. He said alright first give me the instructions inside the horn kit box, I handed them to him, he crumpled them up ,threw them in the trash can and proceeded to install the steering wheel.
Off subject I know, but this thread reminded me of that.
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09-01-16, 11:19 AM
#56
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[QUOTE=velociraptor;19021511]Well, just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The BB30 Red 22 crankset with an integrated spider (which is what the OP has - see pic in post #22) is installed with a wavy washer and spacers - sans preload adjuster.
The crank ships with an install manual (also available here) which the LBS tech would have read, understood and followed if he was doing his job.
Thanks for straightening all this out! It is indeed a BB30 crank with the integrated spider. I checked my manual, and there, in the exploded view, is a very nice picture of a wave washer. And now that I know what a preload adjuster looks like, I checked my bottom bracket and there is not one installed.
The BB30 Red 22 crankset with an integrated spider (which is what the OP has - see pic in post #22) is installed with a wavy washer and spacers - sans preload adjuster.
The crank ships with an install manual (also available here) which the LBS tech would have read, understood and followed if he was doing his job.
Thanks for straightening all this out! It is indeed a BB30 crank with the integrated spider. I checked my manual, and there, in the exploded view, is a very nice picture of a wave washer. And now that I know what a preload adjuster looks like, I checked my bottom bracket and there is not one installed.
09-01-16, 02:02 PM
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Like you post, if you don't have the adjuster, you have to use shims and the wavy washer to establish preload (I had such a 2012 Force crank and know it well). From an engineering standpoint, I'm not sure preloading the bearings is super important (considering the speeds and loads these bearings experience, though the cyclic nature of the radial load probably is a factor in needing adequate preload) but I do see that the preload also locates the spindle axially in the shell and that is going to impact FD alignment.
I have hard copy of the install "manual" (came with my Red 22 cranks). I still have a problem with SRAM's nomenclature, as nothing on their web site refers to "integrated spider" as a variant. All the refs seem to be the standard hidden-bolt design exogram crank. But we now know that a "goupset" may contain this "integrated spider" variant.
scott s.
.
I have hard copy of the install "manual" (came with my Red 22 cranks). I still have a problem with SRAM's nomenclature, as nothing on their web site refers to "integrated spider" as a variant. All the refs seem to be the standard hidden-bolt design exogram crank. But we now know that a "goupset" may contain this "integrated spider" variant.
scott s.
.
05-14-17, 07:27 PM
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Front derailleur problem
I bought an S-Works Roubaix last week with SRAM Ref eTap. On third Ride front derailleur would not shift. Battery freshly charged and also tested with the rear battery that was working fine with the cassette shifting. LBS could not identify problem and wasting to call SRAM tomorrow. Any one else had this problem or have suggestions? Thanks
Justifier1
[/B]
Justifier1
[/B]
Greetings,
A question to SRAM Red eTap users: Are you having issues with the front derailleur? Mine has been in the bike shop 3 times in the last 2 months for service. The 1st trip was an adjustment, the second trip was a limit screw replacement. The third was an entire front derailleur replacement.
Replacing the front derailleur did not fix the issue, amazingly. Here's the problem: Anywhere from 5-30 miles on the 1st ride out of the shop, when I shift from the small ring into the big ring, the derailleur cage moves too far outboard, and it throws the chain off the big ring and onto the crank. The problem continues to happen, essentially rendering my big chainring useless.
I'm at a loss, because the entire front derailleur has been replaced, the crank and chainring are SRAM Red factory, so it's not a compatibility issue. I'm out of ideas, I'm thinking some sort of firmware problem or something along those lines. If any other eTap riders have a similar issue, I'd love to hear how you resolved it.
Thanks so much!!
A question to SRAM Red eTap users: Are you having issues with the front derailleur? Mine has been in the bike shop 3 times in the last 2 months for service. The 1st trip was an adjustment, the second trip was a limit screw replacement. The third was an entire front derailleur replacement.
Replacing the front derailleur did not fix the issue, amazingly. Here's the problem: Anywhere from 5-30 miles on the 1st ride out of the shop, when I shift from the small ring into the big ring, the derailleur cage moves too far outboard, and it throws the chain off the big ring and onto the crank. The problem continues to happen, essentially rendering my big chainring useless.
I'm at a loss, because the entire front derailleur has been replaced, the crank and chainring are SRAM Red factory, so it's not a compatibility issue. I'm out of ideas, I'm thinking some sort of firmware problem or something along those lines. If any other eTap riders have a similar issue, I'd love to hear how you resolved it.
Thanks so much!!
11-12-17, 05:48 AM
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11-12-17, 05:54 AM
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I am not sure why this has not made it onto this thready yet, but looking at this and speaking with SRAM the image tells the story. I am having FD shifting issues too. Everything checks out - chainline, setup etc. I even did the locktite on the set screw trick in case it was moving just a bit. My issue has been more with getting a smooth shift from little to big ring. About 30% of the time it shifts perfectly. The rest of the time it is as if the chain is trying to grab. If I consciously put the considerable tension on the chain while in the little ring I find that is helpful but not 100%. It's almost as if the cadence, chain tension and big ring ramp location must be in alignment (or at least 2 out of those 3) to get a great shift. I have have spent considerable time with SRAM on the phone and have had it reviewed by my LBS. It's a bit frustrating especially when I hear that others are getting perfect shifting... Thoughts?
11-12-17, 08:09 AM
#61
Chases Dogs for Sport
Let's face it . . . SRAM has never done very well with front derailleurs.
Some say that 1x for the road was a sign that SRAM gave up on getting a front derailleur right. Be that as it may, I've owned 2x and 1x SRAM setups. 1x is better.
The plastic nut crankset preload thing is cheap, sad and chintzy. The wave washer thing? C'mon! SRAM should license somebody else's crankset preload system. PAY them $1 per crank. It would be worth it to make SRAM cranks better. It seems that ALL of SRAM's issues come down to workarounds to keep from infringing on somebody else's patent. STOP IT! There's nothing wrong with licensing something if it means your product will work better.
Some say that 1x for the road was a sign that SRAM gave up on getting a front derailleur right. Be that as it may, I've owned 2x and 1x SRAM setups. 1x is better.
The plastic nut crankset preload thing is cheap, sad and chintzy. The wave washer thing? C'mon! SRAM should license somebody else's crankset preload system. PAY them $1 per crank. It would be worth it to make SRAM cranks better. It seems that ALL of SRAM's issues come down to workarounds to keep from infringing on somebody else's patent. STOP IT! There's nothing wrong with licensing something if it means your product will work better.
Last edited by FlashBazbo; 11-12-17 at 08:56 AM.
11-13-17, 09:04 AM
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Let's face it . . . SRAM has never done very well with front derailleurs.
Some say that 1x for the road was a sign that SRAM gave up on getting a front derailleur right. Be that as it may, I've owned 2x and 1x SRAM setups. 1x is better.
The plastic nut crankset preload thing is cheap, sad and chintzy. The wave washer thing? C'mon! SRAM should license somebody else's crankset preload system. PAY them $1 per crank. It would be worth it to make SRAM cranks better. It seems that ALL of SRAM's issues come down to workarounds to keep from infringing on somebody else's patent. STOP IT! There's nothing wrong with licensing something if it means your product will work better.
Some say that 1x for the road was a sign that SRAM gave up on getting a front derailleur right. Be that as it may, I've owned 2x and 1x SRAM setups. 1x is better.
The plastic nut crankset preload thing is cheap, sad and chintzy. The wave washer thing? C'mon! SRAM should license somebody else's crankset preload system. PAY them $1 per crank. It would be worth it to make SRAM cranks better. It seems that ALL of SRAM's issues come down to workarounds to keep from infringing on somebody else's patent. STOP IT! There's nothing wrong with licensing something if it means your product will work better.
I ended up trashing the Sram Red BB30 crankset altogether a few weeks ago. I had taken the bike to a different bike shop to address creaking (I know, shocking on BB30! lol). The LBS fixed the creaking sound, but they messed up the crank again. I could actually move the crank laterally with my hand!
Now installed on my bike is a silky smooth Ultegra 8000 crank with Specialized BB30 adapters. It's working great. I'm done with BB30 cranks for good!
04-24-24, 09:03 AM
#63
Newbie
I Feel Your Pain
I really do, because it happens to me, exactly like you, randomly, not consistent, except that it happens to me when going from the big chain ring to the small. Once out of every 10 - 15 times, using the same gear ratio each time, it'll drop the chain on the inside. Then it'll do it again the next time, then it won't for another 15 shifts. Don't listen to the people who say you need to find a better mechanic or say it's obviously an adjustment, bad limit screws, etc. It's an apparent flaw inherent with SRAM. I do like the poster who said screw it, I switched to Shimano, never had a problem. If I had the money to do that I would.
My adjustment is spot on, a frog's hair from touching the inside wall of the FD, that's not the issue. It was installed with the tool, it's perfect. My firmware is up to date. I finally figured out what the issue is, and it's not adjustments/alignments, it's the derailleur. When you're in specific cogs in the back (I think it's the biggest and smallest) and shift the FD, it shifts twice, once to move the chain, then once to settle back to the correct alignment. When you're in the middle cogs in the back, it only shifts once. I guess it doesn't need the over adjustment to get the chain to move unless you're executing a much larger ratio. I might have that reversed, I'm not watching my bike right now. I watched it very intently in the stand with my own eyes. Middle cogs in the back, shift high to low, one shift, perfect. Keep doing it, multiple times, all perfect shifts. Then it happened. Shift (using the button on the derailleur), bang, two moves, throw the chain. Put it back on, same gearing ratio, shift, one shift, perfect. It's like it's randomly confused that the rear is in the highest or lowest cog, when it isn't. Sometimes it will do it twice in a row, and then work fine for the next 10 shifts.
To me, this is a firmware issue because it randomly moves twice using the same gearing ratio, when it should only move once all the time in the same gear in the rear. 10 - 15 times in the same gear it makes one shift, then for some odd reason it decides to shift twice like the rear is in the extreme cog, which it isn't, and it throws the chain.
It's disappointing to hear that a new FD didn't fix it. With enough people saying this happens to them as well, and my own personal experience watching the derailleur randomly shift twice and dropping the chain, and then the other 10 - 15 times it shifts once with a perfect shift, you can't adjust that out. And I'm really frustrated with it.
My adjustment is spot on, a frog's hair from touching the inside wall of the FD, that's not the issue. It was installed with the tool, it's perfect. My firmware is up to date. I finally figured out what the issue is, and it's not adjustments/alignments, it's the derailleur. When you're in specific cogs in the back (I think it's the biggest and smallest) and shift the FD, it shifts twice, once to move the chain, then once to settle back to the correct alignment. When you're in the middle cogs in the back, it only shifts once. I guess it doesn't need the over adjustment to get the chain to move unless you're executing a much larger ratio. I might have that reversed, I'm not watching my bike right now. I watched it very intently in the stand with my own eyes. Middle cogs in the back, shift high to low, one shift, perfect. Keep doing it, multiple times, all perfect shifts. Then it happened. Shift (using the button on the derailleur), bang, two moves, throw the chain. Put it back on, same gearing ratio, shift, one shift, perfect. It's like it's randomly confused that the rear is in the highest or lowest cog, when it isn't. Sometimes it will do it twice in a row, and then work fine for the next 10 shifts.
To me, this is a firmware issue because it randomly moves twice using the same gearing ratio, when it should only move once all the time in the same gear in the rear. 10 - 15 times in the same gear it makes one shift, then for some odd reason it decides to shift twice like the rear is in the extreme cog, which it isn't, and it throws the chain.
It's disappointing to hear that a new FD didn't fix it. With enough people saying this happens to them as well, and my own personal experience watching the derailleur randomly shift twice and dropping the chain, and then the other 10 - 15 times it shifts once with a perfect shift, you can't adjust that out. And I'm really frustrated with it.
04-24-24, 09:08 AM
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I really do, because it happens to me, exactly like you, randomly, not consistent, except that it happens to me when going from the big chain ring to the small. Once out of every 10 - 15 times, using the same gear ratio each time, it'll drop the chain on the inside. Then it'll do it again the next time, then it won't for another 15 shifts. Don't listen to the people who say you need to find a better mechanic or say it's obviously an adjustment, bad limit screws, etc. It's an apparent flaw inherent with SRAM. I do like the poster who said screw it, I switched to Shimano, never had a problem. If I had the money to do that I would.
My adjustment is spot on, a frog's hair from touching the inside wall of the FD, that's not the issue. It was installed with the tool, it's perfect. My firmware is up to date. I finally figured out what the issue is, and it's not adjustments/alignments, it's the derailleur. When you're in specific cogs in the back (I think it's the biggest and smallest) and shift the FD, it shifts twice, once to move the chain, then once to settle back to the correct alignment. When you're in the middle cogs in the back, it only shifts once. I guess it doesn't need the over adjustment to get the chain to move unless you're executing a much larger ratio. I might have that reversed, I'm not watching my bike right now. I watched it very intently in the stand with my own eyes. Middle cogs in the back, shift high to low, one shift, perfect. Keep doing it, multiple times, all perfect shifts. Then it happened. Shift (using the button on the derailleur), bang, two moves, throw the chain. Put it back on, same gearing ratio, shift, one shift, perfect. It's like it's randomly confused that the rear is in the highest or lowest cog, when it isn't. Sometimes it will do it twice in a row, and then work fine for the next 10 shifts.
To me, this is a firmware issue because it randomly moves twice using the same gearing ratio, when it should only move once all the time in the same gear in the rear. 10 - 15 times in the same gear it makes one shift, then for some odd reason it decides to shift twice like the rear is in the extreme cog, which it isn't, and it throws the chain.
It's disappointing to hear that a new FD didn't fix it. With enough people saying this happens to them as well, and my own personal experience watching the derailleur randomly shift twice and dropping the chain, and then the other 10 - 15 times it shifts once with a perfect shift, you can't adjust that out. And I'm really frustrated with it.
My adjustment is spot on, a frog's hair from touching the inside wall of the FD, that's not the issue. It was installed with the tool, it's perfect. My firmware is up to date. I finally figured out what the issue is, and it's not adjustments/alignments, it's the derailleur. When you're in specific cogs in the back (I think it's the biggest and smallest) and shift the FD, it shifts twice, once to move the chain, then once to settle back to the correct alignment. When you're in the middle cogs in the back, it only shifts once. I guess it doesn't need the over adjustment to get the chain to move unless you're executing a much larger ratio. I might have that reversed, I'm not watching my bike right now. I watched it very intently in the stand with my own eyes. Middle cogs in the back, shift high to low, one shift, perfect. Keep doing it, multiple times, all perfect shifts. Then it happened. Shift (using the button on the derailleur), bang, two moves, throw the chain. Put it back on, same gearing ratio, shift, one shift, perfect. It's like it's randomly confused that the rear is in the highest or lowest cog, when it isn't. Sometimes it will do it twice in a row, and then work fine for the next 10 shifts.
To me, this is a firmware issue because it randomly moves twice using the same gearing ratio, when it should only move once all the time in the same gear in the rear. 10 - 15 times in the same gear it makes one shift, then for some odd reason it decides to shift twice like the rear is in the extreme cog, which it isn't, and it throws the chain.
It's disappointing to hear that a new FD didn't fix it. With enough people saying this happens to them as well, and my own personal experience watching the derailleur randomly shift twice and dropping the chain, and then the other 10 - 15 times it shifts once with a perfect shift, you can't adjust that out. And I'm really frustrated with it.
04-24-24, 09:49 AM
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04-24-24, 12:33 PM
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04-24-24, 01:42 PM
#68
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Well, that's what I'm hoping anyway. Fortunately it's still under warranty. Unfortunately you have to send it back, and wait. And it's outdoor riding season, which means I could be without my bike for an extended time. I'd rather live with the chance it'll resolve itself. I'm messed with the SRAM app and changed some settings there, so we'll see. Again, it's like randomly thinks the rear is in an upper or lower gear that it's not, so it moves the FD twice, when 9 out of 10 times it moves it once. The OP said he got a new one that was installed professionally and it still did the same thing. I hope that's not the case. But I might have my old FD I replaced this one for, so I might be able to swap it out while I wait.
04-24-24, 03:07 PM
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Well, that's what I'm hoping anyway. Fortunately it's still under warranty. Unfortunately you have to send it back, and wait. And it's outdoor riding season, which means I could be without my bike for an extended time. I'd rather live with the chance it'll resolve itself. I'm messed with the SRAM app and changed some settings there, so we'll see. Again, it's like randomly thinks the rear is in an upper or lower gear that it's not, so it moves the FD twice, when 9 out of 10 times it moves it once. The OP said he got a new one that was installed professionally and it still did the same thing. I hope that's not the case. But I might have my old FD I replaced this one for, so I might be able to swap it out while I wait.
What settings did you change in the app that you think might help? I run mine in manual shift mode without rear shift compensation.
04-24-24, 05:25 PM
#70
Newbie
I set it to enhanced mode and compensating. Had it manual. Went for a ride today, dropped the chain twice. I'm have so little confidence in it now I stop peddling to shift it. Sure enough one time it shifted, I cranked the pedal and it threw the chain because the derailleur had moved too far. But it worked fine the other 10 times. Sounds like a limit adjustment, but it isn't, or an alignment issue but I have monkeyed with both of those so much to try to get it to work, and it still randomly over shifts. I bought it in 2022 but it might be older.
04-24-24, 05:32 PM
#71
Newbie
I set it to enhanced mode and compensating. Had it manual. Went for a ride today, dropped the chain twice. I'm have so little confidence in it now I stop peddling to shift it. Sure enough one time it shifted, I cranked the pedal and it threw the chain because the derailleur had moved too far. But it worked fine the other 10 times. Sounds like a limit adjustment, but it isn't, or an alignment issue but I have monkeyed with both of those so much to try to get it to work, and it still randomly over shifts. I bought it in 2022 but it might be older.
04-24-24, 06:58 PM
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I set it to enhanced mode and compensating. Had it manual. Went for a ride today, dropped the chain twice. I'm have so little confidence in it now I stop peddling to shift it. Sure enough one time it shifted, I cranked the pedal and it threw the chain because the derailleur had moved too far. But it worked fine the other 10 times. Sounds like a limit adjustment, but it isn't, or an alignment issue but I have monkeyed with both of those so much to try to get it to work, and it still randomly over shifts. I bought it in 2022 but it might be older.
04-24-24, 09:21 PM
#73
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I agree, I would move on to the warranty if you are having these issues. I have 2 bike with SRAM AXS with a FD and never had it drop once on either bike, not that it couldn't, just have not experienced it since I have been running them. Could it be a frame issue where the FD hanger could be off slightly making your chain line off?? Ever checked that?
05-01-24, 02:52 PM
#74
It's carbon dontcha know.
I don't recall my 11 speed Red Etap ever dropping the chain to the inside for the 5 years I had that bike. My new build this year with 12 speed Red AXS kept dropping to the inside, so I tracked down one of the no longer made SRAM front chain keepers and no more issues 
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05-01-24, 06:54 PM
#75
Newbie
I don't recall my 11 speed Red Etap ever dropping the chain to the inside for the 5 years I had that bike. My new build this year with 12 speed Red AXS kept dropping to the inside, so I tracked down one of the no longer made SRAM front chain keepers and no more issues