Japanese Road bikes with Tange 1 frames
07-14-12, 03:36 AM
#27
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Tange Champion decal on Koga-Miyata with 'Champion' in red denotes #1. Tange #2 is with 'Champion' in green.
FullPro-L fork
Tange #2 for regular FullPro >>>
FullPro-L fork
Tange #2 for regular FullPro >>>
Last edited by Elev12k; 07-14-12 at 03:42 AM.
07-14-12, 06:43 AM
#28
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The only head-head comparison I'd know of, in that regard, would be the Tange 2 84 Centurion Comp TA vs. the Tange 1 85 Centurion Ironman. As far as I know, the geometry is the same, components pretty much the same, only the tubing is different.
The difference? 2+ ounces.
I've had both, at different times, and one was a 58cm, so the comparison is null and void. However, A. Winthrop has one of each, same size, and feels the Tange 2 is slightly smoother. He really likes the ride of his Comp TA.
As far as OP's request...
Centurion Semi Pro - chromed
Centurion Ironman
Panasonic DX5000 (later went to Prestige)
Nishiki International
Nishiki Tri A
Lotus Classique
I think there was another Panasonic or two...
...and all the other here and some that aren't.
The tubing was good stuff, used by a lot of folks. I personally wouldn't worry about the weight much. I weigh more than you and I have a 220lb friend riding a 60cm Ironman for all it's worth. The bike can handle it.
The Panasonics and the Centurions were very, very similar, and a magazine back then had an article about the National frames that were being produced at the time, putting Centurions in the same mix as the Panasonics, and some others. A lot of them were likely made in the same place.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 07-14-12 at 06:49 AM.
07-14-12, 07:19 AM
#29
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Panasonic DX-4000 was Tange 1 in 1989. Maybe other years, too.
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07-14-12, 10:47 AM
#30
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I am looking at an Araya at auction right now. Too much interest so I am probably not going to play, but I would sure like the frame.
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07-14-12, 11:59 AM
#31
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Curious about the Miyata use of Tange, since they were so well known for drawing their own tubing, yet they also used Tange on virtually all the Koga-Miyatas sold into Europe...if T-Mar ever comes back maybe he'll have the details for us.
Fuji was another marque that early-on used their own "brand" for most of their tubing, but it was suspected that Ishiwata actually supplied it.
07-14-12, 12:49 PM
#32
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I have a Nishiki ONP Pro frameset listed in the C&V Sales sub-forum now. T-mar (the expert on japanese road frames) said in the Nishiki thread that they're most likely made with Tange Champion 1:
That is the Nishiki ONP frameset. Your tubing is Tange Champion #1. The frames were reportedly built in a separate section of the facility by eight craftsmen. From what I've be able to uncover, the project started in 1974 but frames don't appear to have hit the market until 1976.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...t-in-San-Diego
That is the Nishiki ONP frameset. Your tubing is Tange Champion #1. The frames were reportedly built in a separate section of the facility by eight craftsmen. From what I've be able to uncover, the project started in 1974 but frames don't appear to have hit the market until 1976.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...t-in-San-Diego
07-14-12, 12:57 PM
#33
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The Tange Champion 1 and 2 difference is similar to Columbus' SL and SP.
#2 is just a slightly thicker DB tubing, as was SP. If you had a big frame to build, using #2 or SP yielded a stiffer frame. Some builders substituted only the seat tube for a stiffer BB.
The #2 seat tube can be differentiated by a 26.8mm seat post.
I have a 57cm frame made from Champ #2 and I think it rides and handles quite well.
#2 is just a slightly thicker DB tubing, as was SP. If you had a big frame to build, using #2 or SP yielded a stiffer frame. Some builders substituted only the seat tube for a stiffer BB.
The #2 seat tube can be differentiated by a 26.8mm seat post.
I have a 57cm frame made from Champ #2 and I think it rides and handles quite well.
10-09-12, 01:08 PM
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Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the frame tubes: Tange Champion 1 and 2 and the frame tubes of Team Miyata 'Miyata Cr-Mo Chrome Molybdenum double butted tubes "which are used for the Team Miyata bikes?
The Pro-Miyata frames looks the same to me
Or is this just a decal story?
The Pro-Miyata frames looks the same to me
Or is this just a decal story?
10-09-12, 01:27 PM
#36
Death fork? Naaaah!!
By an amazing coincidence, I just posted this Tange Champion #1 Lotus Classique:
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10-09-12, 01:47 PM
#37
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Depends more on the geometry. I've had a 60cm Ironman (#1) and a 55cm Shogun 800(#2) The Shogun was lighter, and closer to my size, but really didn't feel that great to me. The Ironman was too large, but felt great.
10-09-12, 08:44 PM
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I thought the higher thenumber thebetter :/ guess my buddys tange 5 miele uno isn't as good as I thought
12-22-16, 09:51 AM
#39
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Also Novara Strada, REI Sports' house brand.
12-22-16, 12:15 PM
#40
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I have an '87 Panasonic DX-5000. It was specced as being Tange 1, but it's a larger frame, so I'll check the sticker tonight.
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12-22-16, 05:04 PM
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My 52 centurion prestige isn't flexy/springy for my 170 lbs. My pinarello el (not os) is.
03-23-21, 09:51 AM
#42
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03-23-21, 01:32 PM
#43
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My Novara Tange 1 frame takes a 27.0 seatpost. Others have reported the same. Some have said their various 80's Tange 1 frames took 27.2 seatposts.
09-24-22, 10:27 PM
#44
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Another year later and there is a Five Star with Tange 1 on auction in Japan
The seller says that Five Star was a brand of a bike shop in Nagano.
Five Star Tange 1
The seller says that Five Star was a brand of a bike shop in Nagano.
Five Star Tange 1
09-26-22, 09:08 AM
#45
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I think that back in the days a lot of Japanese Keirin track frames were made with Tange-1.There are a few of these old dears hanging from a couple of shop ceilings around here in Sendai. I've checked them out for sure, but I'll have to take another boo to be sure. I think Keirin rules formulate the tubing. These days I think it's Kaisei.
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09-27-22, 09:01 AM
#46
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...I thought it was the opposite? Tange "Champion", without a number but in a red label, is number 2. Tange "Champion" without a number but in green is number 1. So that they match the colors of the later numbered decals.
I'm happy to be corrected on this. I'm looking at a late-70's Centurion with Tange Champion red-label tubing, and I'd be slightly more interested if it were #1.
