Turning the corner on doping in the UCI
#1
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Turning the corner on doping in the UCI
#3
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Just this side of insanity.
Posts: 575
Bikes: Too many
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There may be a lag between the new testing regime and the tricks around the tests. For every testing regime there will be someone who figures out a way around the rules.
Turned the corner, no. Temporary roadblock, yes.
Turned the corner, no. Temporary roadblock, yes.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#8
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
#9
Senior Member
No positive results (yet) from the Tour means no one was doping during the Tour? Yeah right. A lack of scandal is great, but past experience makes it pretty clear that a lack of positives only mean that no one was caught. That's not really turning the corner.
#10
Senior Member
"It's looking like the Tour de France will not have any positive tests for a number of years."
.....
.......
.....
and then Lance will retire,........again.
Pcad, Does this not start to feel like a record skip? Iwish,...I really, really do,........that I could believe that the UCI and ASO aren't currently involved in compromise solutions that do as much to turn a blind eye, as they do, actually clean the sport up. I just find it very hard to believe that for three years running the entire pro peleton, including the tour, is hounded by constant positive tests, then,........suddenly, "it's cleaned up".
.....
.......
.....
and then Lance will retire,........again.
Pcad, Does this not start to feel like a record skip? Iwish,...I really, really do,........that I could believe that the UCI and ASO aren't currently involved in compromise solutions that do as much to turn a blind eye, as they do, actually clean the sport up. I just find it very hard to believe that for three years running the entire pro peleton, including the tour, is hounded by constant positive tests, then,........suddenly, "it's cleaned up".
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Just this side of insanity.
Posts: 575
Bikes: Too many
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Meanwhile, in the NFL, they're still trying to figure out how to situate the big stadium video screens so the punters don't hit it.
Idiots.
Maybe management is on steroids, which might explain such staggering stupidity.
Idiots.
Maybe management is on steroids, which might explain such staggering stupidity.
#12
Rower
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 96
Bikes: Specialized
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They're all doping...just look at the historical performance results and their improvement. And please dont tell me crap about nutrition. Simple case in point, the all-time best results on Alpe d'Huez:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Alpe_d%27Huez
See who's at the very bottom - LeMond and Hinault. You mean to tell me a guy like Pantani or Urlich were almost 10 minutes better than those two?
Same applies to track and field, and Mr. Bolt. I dont buy any of it and those that do, you are being naive.
When baseball records started falling with McGuire/Sosa/Bonds everyone was in complete denial about it. Same thing applies to todays world of Cycling and Track...
Doesnt mean I cant enjoy it. I do. Just the historical perspective is gone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Alpe_d%27Huez
See who's at the very bottom - LeMond and Hinault. You mean to tell me a guy like Pantani or Urlich were almost 10 minutes better than those two?
Same applies to track and field, and Mr. Bolt. I dont buy any of it and those that do, you are being naive.
When baseball records started falling with McGuire/Sosa/Bonds everyone was in complete denial about it. Same thing applies to todays world of Cycling and Track...
Doesnt mean I cant enjoy it. I do. Just the historical perspective is gone.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 56
Bikes: Klien
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
How did the speed on the flats and climbs compare to previous years when there were a lot of positives? If they were comparable then I would assume doping is still prevalent. The cyclists and their doctors will always be one step ahead of the testers with drugs that are undetectable. This is not just in cycling, but also track and field etc.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm inclined to believe that there is something new that's being used. I find it very dubious that nobody tested positive. There were also very few positives at the track and field World Championships. Hard to believe that all participants have suddenly gotten clean.
#15
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Actually, you are being oblivious, considering that fact that F. Coppi rode the Alpe several minutes faster than Lemond in 1952 on a 20 lb + ancient bicycle. Bugno and Indurain were both sub-40 minutes as far back as 1991. What were those guys on? Coffee?
#17
I read more than post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They were on UPPERS
boniek1982 - your logic here is that
1) all people who rode in the 50s were clean,
2) all people who ride in the 90s and beyond are riding much faster than those in the 50s,
3) drugs make people ride faster
Therefore - all riders in the 90s and beyond are on drugs.
Sorry - but that is flawed logic. Even those who are not on drugs will demonstrate significant improvement in times/performance when compared to those in the 50s - technology is the largest reason. Better bikes, better and more specified training, and (most importantly in my opinion) better roads!
Backing this up with some all important anecdotal evidence - even those who cheated and then came back (mostly?) clean are able to perform at similar if not identical levels.
Drugs don't really make a difference on ONE day. They make a difference over MANY days.
Unless you are talking uppers! Read Joe Parkins book for some good stories of what a guy on uppers can do with a bike!!!
#18
Legs of Steel
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: On my bike
Posts: 1,832
Bikes: Pegoretti Marcelo, Cannondale six13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They're all doping...just look at the historical performance results and their improvement. And please dont tell me crap about nutrition. Simple case in point, the all-time best results on Alpe d'Huez:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Alpe_d%27Huez
See who's at the very bottom - LeMond and Hinault. You mean to tell me a guy like Pantani or Urlich were almost 10 minutes better than those two?
Same applies to track and field, and Mr. Bolt. I dont buy any of it and those that do, you are being naive.
When baseball records started falling with McGuire/Sosa/Bonds everyone was in complete denial about it. Same thing applies to todays world of Cycling and Track...
Doesnt mean I cant enjoy it. I do. Just the historical perspective is gone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Alpe_d%27Huez
See who's at the very bottom - LeMond and Hinault. You mean to tell me a guy like Pantani or Urlich were almost 10 minutes better than those two?
Same applies to track and field, and Mr. Bolt. I dont buy any of it and those that do, you are being naive.
When baseball records started falling with McGuire/Sosa/Bonds everyone was in complete denial about it. Same thing applies to todays world of Cycling and Track...
Doesnt mean I cant enjoy it. I do. Just the historical perspective is gone.
#19
Col du
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 354
Bikes: Cervelo Soloist
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I will share a theory of mine with this topic. TdF doping control seems to be more strict than other races. Evidence: Ricco got away with it at the Giro but got caught at the TdF. If so, then a clever rider would dope early in the season while training for the Giro. He'd kick ass at the Giro and then he'd stop taking the stuff and go to the Tour clean, with some modest performance enhancing benefits still with him.
It would explain why several riders (we know who they are) did so well at the Giro and/or at Dauphine, but just blew up at TdF.
It would explain why several riders (we know who they are) did so well at the Giro and/or at Dauphine, but just blew up at TdF.
#20
Rower
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 96
Bikes: Specialized
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They were on UPPERS
boniek1982 - your logic here is that
1) all people who rode in the 50s were clean,
2) all people who ride in the 90s and beyond are riding much faster than those in the 50s,
3) drugs make people ride faster
Therefore - all riders in the 90s and beyond are on drugs.
Sorry - but that is flawed logic. Even those who are not on drugs will demonstrate significant improvement in times/performance when compared to those in the 50s - technology is the largest reason. Better bikes, better and more specified training, and (most importantly in my opinion) better roads!
Backing this up with some all important anecdotal evidence - even those who cheated and then came back (mostly?) clean are able to perform at similar if not identical levels.
Drugs don't really make a difference on ONE day. They make a difference over MANY days.
Unless you are talking uppers! Read Joe Parkins book for some good stories of what a guy on uppers can do with a bike!!!
boniek1982 - your logic here is that
1) all people who rode in the 50s were clean,
2) all people who ride in the 90s and beyond are riding much faster than those in the 50s,
3) drugs make people ride faster
Therefore - all riders in the 90s and beyond are on drugs.
Sorry - but that is flawed logic. Even those who are not on drugs will demonstrate significant improvement in times/performance when compared to those in the 50s - technology is the largest reason. Better bikes, better and more specified training, and (most importantly in my opinion) better roads!
Backing this up with some all important anecdotal evidence - even those who cheated and then came back (mostly?) clean are able to perform at similar if not identical levels.
Drugs don't really make a difference on ONE day. They make a difference over MANY days.
Unless you are talking uppers! Read Joe Parkins book for some good stories of what a guy on uppers can do with a bike!!!
Does the EPO madness explain the 10 minute gap? Probably not entirely, because yes there are advances in tactics, equipment and training. But still its shocking to see such a discprenancy and so far NONE of you have been able to explain that.
#21
squid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Autologous blood doping. The testers acknowledge there is still no way for them to detect it. Does anyone think it doesn't happen any more just because Fuentes got busted?
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,681
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Either people are not using drugs or they're using less drugs....both of those are steps in the right direction.
__________________
15% Hammer Nutrition Discount Code
15% Hammer Nutrition Discount Code
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North shore of Mass.
Posts: 2,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
Actually they were on cigarettes. In time we will find out all about how smoking improves an athletes performance. You'll see, I just know it.
#25
Elitist Troglodyte
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,925
Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Yeah, but they can and do check hematocrit level. That severely limits the effectiveness of blood doping.
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?
- Will Rogers
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?
- Will Rogers