Got a Worksman cycletruck..
06-16-11, 11:50 PM
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Got a Worksman cycletruck..
Review of Worksman Cycle Truck Zero Gravity Bicycle
Ordered an LGB a couple weeks ago, and it finally came. Mostly. I wanted to give updates on it, since there are virtually no reviews of the thing. I wrote up some bits before that i'll post, so it'll be in a generally chronological sort of order, and then i'll write about today when I picked it up.
The Worksman Experience
I've ridden an Extracycle conversion for years, in Alaska. Hauls everything I could want, stable, rides great, bombproof, all wonderful things. Only problem?
I can't take the bus. In Anchorage, this is an annoyance, and one that was getting more and more irritating. The Extracycle lengthens the wheelbase, and the bike no longer fits in a bus's rack. I've seen various workarounds online, none of which look like they would work well, most of which I tried out on a parked bus with no success. One of them, for instance, involves putting the front chainrings into one of the tire slots on the rack. One bump, and you'd be replacing your drivetrain.
So i've been looking at a front-loader for awhile. I think that it would fit in a bus rack, and I can keep an eye on the cargo – that's been a point of concern in the past, with large loads where there is nothing but straps holding things on the sides on the Extracycle.
So I sent an email to Worksman, on Thursday, May 12, 2011.
Monday, May 16: Response from my email from Worksman. Good language, but did they really not notice that their capslock was on the entire letter?
sERIOUSLY. tHE LANGUAGE WAS PROFESSIONAL AND HELPFUL. bUT THE WHOLE EMAIL LOOKED LIKE THIS. wHAAAT? aLSO, THERE WERE A FEW MISPELD WERDS.
Sorry Worksman, but capslock is NOT 'cruise control for cool' no matter what your kids might say.
Tuesday, May 17: Went to East Bank Cyclery to order one, as was suggested. Good service, Greg was helpful and friendly. Put down $200. Am told it will be ready in 10 days. I do have some concerns as i'm using a rental car this day, one which I won't have when the bike is ready. They say they can deliver if I can't get there.
The one i'm ordering has the front drum brake kit, the 3 speed internal hub (They used to offer a 7 speed, but I see no sign of it anymore), the lit safety pedals, and thornproof tubes.
Wednesday, June 1: 10 business days, and I get a call from East Bank Cyclery – they have the wrong fork. I ordered with the front drum brake kit, and the fork they received isn't compatible with the drum brake. They already ordered the parts, so it'll be another week.
In the meanwhile, i'm riding my wife's Trek Navigator. I eat my knees on this a lot, and the seat post needs to be tightened a lot.
Thursday, June 16: I get a call in the morning from Eastbank. They're STILL waiting on the fork, and have no idea where it is. Lots of apologies, and they offer to let me pick up the bike, sans drum brake kit; when it comes in, they'll do a house call and install it. Sounds good. I got hold of a Walmart bike to use in the interim; the daughter will be able to use it when she gets here while she waits for her Suede to be shipped to her. This is a long and irrelevant story.
I check the bus schedule and find out that I can take two buses and get to the place. In practice it turns out to be three. I get a transfer to the corner of Williams and Esplanade, kitty-corner from Eastbank. The bus driver and one of the passengers recommend that I ride the bus around until it loops around, then get off on the side with the cycle shop. This seems completely ridiculous to me, so I turn it down.
Then I try to cross the intersection. Ho, Lee, Heck. The city of Kenner apparently considers pedestrians in the same light as unicorns and the easter bunny.
I check out the bike. It was actually built on an LGG frame, not an LGB, since that's what was in stock, so I have a stepthrough frame. This is helpful. The bike looks pretty solid.
Test rode it around the parking lot – the roads looked too hostile. First impressions – the bike has a spongy feel – I need to check the air pressure lately, but it looks fine right now and the tires don't -look- low. The riding position is VERY upright, similar to the Navigator.
The basket is smaller than I expected, but looks solid. I am told, though, that this is actually one of the last welded baskets that will be made; the new baskets are made of sheet metal, are lighter, weaker, and SMALLER.
The front of the basket has a standard reflector bolted to it at an angle. Only one hole was drilled for it, so there's nowhere for the orienting knob to fit. Shoddy design work, in my opinion.
My hands don't fit the grips; they're too short. The design of the bars worries me; there seems to be all but nothing in the way of level bar real estate for mounting lights and such; also, there is no room to move the twist shifter inboard to make room for a longer grip. Not sure how to address this.
The kickstand is a metal triangle, spring loaded, hanging on the fork. To use it, push it down and back the bike over it. Works pretty well. However, when I hit bumps, it bounces and clangs against the stay behind the fender. That needs a rubber stop, I think. Also, it creates a significant space problem for my clown feet. It's going to take experimenting to figure how not to kick it while pedalling.
If I put the ball of my feet on the pedals and spin, as long as the pedals are forward enough, I don't hit them. This might technically be good cycling form, i'm not sure.
I don't ride that way, though; when I was commuting by bike 15 miles/day in Alaska, riding with my feet in the “proper” position invariably, around mile 4-5, resulted in toes 2-4 on either foot simply vanishing in an unnerving bit of sensation. I'd be riding along and suddenly my body awareness would report that all my toes but my big and little toes had completely and inexplicably been disintegrated halfway up to the arch of my foot. The solution I worked out was to ride on my heels, which completely solved the problem. On this bike, though, that results in lots of clanging as my toe pushes the kickstand down. Riding with my foot position in closer to where I think they 'should' be results in -more- clanging though, because of the angle of my toes.
I'd planned to ride home by the Mississippi River Trail, so I start making my way to the river. After some hair-raising navigation of roads with no shoulders or sidewalks, I get close to the river. This is when I realize something that had been bugging me, and which I really should have caught at the bike shop: the gears are not correctly dialed in. I don't have a first gear; I have 2, 3, and 3 again. So no acceleration gear. I manage, but it's quite a bit more tiring as a result. The shifting that I have access to feels pretty smooth.
I tried to stop at NOBS to get the shifter adjusted, but it was 6:00 sharp when I finally pulled into Carrolton, and the place was closed. So I haven't experienced first gear yet.
The ride is actually pretty smooth. It has a 'pickup truck' floaty feel to it, rather than the 'luxury car/station wagon' long feel of the Extracycle. The steering doesn't feel aggressive, but nonetheless, I feel like I have to keep it firmly under control at all times. It doesn't feel like it tracks too wonderfully.
I ride down to the Tchoppy Wal-Mart, completely tiring myself out in the process, as I haven't been able to get riding time in over the past month. Wife thinks I look exhausted and a bit sunburned, and makes me stay there and wait for her.
While there, I buy two of the 24 bottle flats of 20oz water bottles and some assorted small groceries. These barely fit in the basket; there's a barely a couple of inches left around the flats of water, and the two flats stacked are about the height of the basket. This is far less than i'm used to loading on the Extracycle.
Riding home loaded like that, the need to manhandle the steering is more apparent, but manageable; I doubt I could manage to haul that much water in a fork mounted front basket, but it's still a far cry from the smooth ride on the X. That said, the ride home is uneventful and very tolerable.
The wife reports that only one of the safety pedals is working, and it is not visible at any reasonable angle. Disappointing, and i'm going to have to check the pedal. I hope the rest of the 'American worksmanship' isn't that effective.
Tried to carry the bike upstairs, for lack of a better idea what to do with it. Tried. The center of gravity of the bike, unloaded, is right beside the steering column. Interesting, i'm not sure what this might mean for the engineering of it. It makes it an absolute beast to lift, even more than it's weight might indicate. (I have no idea what it weighs yet.) So I now have the thing parked downstairs locked to the post supporting the stairway, because I couldn't pick it up and get it to an angle that could navigate a staircase.
Tomorrow, I might have time to get some pictures and whatnot taken. I'm not sure what to look for for some of the things that people might want to know; let me know and i'll take a look. Or if someone in the area wants to peek at it, leave word.
Ordered an LGB a couple weeks ago, and it finally came. Mostly. I wanted to give updates on it, since there are virtually no reviews of the thing. I wrote up some bits before that i'll post, so it'll be in a generally chronological sort of order, and then i'll write about today when I picked it up.
The Worksman Experience
I've ridden an Extracycle conversion for years, in Alaska. Hauls everything I could want, stable, rides great, bombproof, all wonderful things. Only problem?
I can't take the bus. In Anchorage, this is an annoyance, and one that was getting more and more irritating. The Extracycle lengthens the wheelbase, and the bike no longer fits in a bus's rack. I've seen various workarounds online, none of which look like they would work well, most of which I tried out on a parked bus with no success. One of them, for instance, involves putting the front chainrings into one of the tire slots on the rack. One bump, and you'd be replacing your drivetrain.
So i've been looking at a front-loader for awhile. I think that it would fit in a bus rack, and I can keep an eye on the cargo – that's been a point of concern in the past, with large loads where there is nothing but straps holding things on the sides on the Extracycle.
So I sent an email to Worksman, on Thursday, May 12, 2011.
Monday, May 16: Response from my email from Worksman. Good language, but did they really not notice that their capslock was on the entire letter?
sERIOUSLY. tHE LANGUAGE WAS PROFESSIONAL AND HELPFUL. bUT THE WHOLE EMAIL LOOKED LIKE THIS. wHAAAT? aLSO, THERE WERE A FEW MISPELD WERDS.
Sorry Worksman, but capslock is NOT 'cruise control for cool' no matter what your kids might say.
Tuesday, May 17: Went to East Bank Cyclery to order one, as was suggested. Good service, Greg was helpful and friendly. Put down $200. Am told it will be ready in 10 days. I do have some concerns as i'm using a rental car this day, one which I won't have when the bike is ready. They say they can deliver if I can't get there.
The one i'm ordering has the front drum brake kit, the 3 speed internal hub (They used to offer a 7 speed, but I see no sign of it anymore), the lit safety pedals, and thornproof tubes.
Wednesday, June 1: 10 business days, and I get a call from East Bank Cyclery – they have the wrong fork. I ordered with the front drum brake kit, and the fork they received isn't compatible with the drum brake. They already ordered the parts, so it'll be another week.
In the meanwhile, i'm riding my wife's Trek Navigator. I eat my knees on this a lot, and the seat post needs to be tightened a lot.
Thursday, June 16: I get a call in the morning from Eastbank. They're STILL waiting on the fork, and have no idea where it is. Lots of apologies, and they offer to let me pick up the bike, sans drum brake kit; when it comes in, they'll do a house call and install it. Sounds good. I got hold of a Walmart bike to use in the interim; the daughter will be able to use it when she gets here while she waits for her Suede to be shipped to her. This is a long and irrelevant story.
I check the bus schedule and find out that I can take two buses and get to the place. In practice it turns out to be three. I get a transfer to the corner of Williams and Esplanade, kitty-corner from Eastbank. The bus driver and one of the passengers recommend that I ride the bus around until it loops around, then get off on the side with the cycle shop. This seems completely ridiculous to me, so I turn it down.
Then I try to cross the intersection. Ho, Lee, Heck. The city of Kenner apparently considers pedestrians in the same light as unicorns and the easter bunny.
I check out the bike. It was actually built on an LGG frame, not an LGB, since that's what was in stock, so I have a stepthrough frame. This is helpful. The bike looks pretty solid.
Test rode it around the parking lot – the roads looked too hostile. First impressions – the bike has a spongy feel – I need to check the air pressure lately, but it looks fine right now and the tires don't -look- low. The riding position is VERY upright, similar to the Navigator.
The basket is smaller than I expected, but looks solid. I am told, though, that this is actually one of the last welded baskets that will be made; the new baskets are made of sheet metal, are lighter, weaker, and SMALLER.
The front of the basket has a standard reflector bolted to it at an angle. Only one hole was drilled for it, so there's nowhere for the orienting knob to fit. Shoddy design work, in my opinion.
My hands don't fit the grips; they're too short. The design of the bars worries me; there seems to be all but nothing in the way of level bar real estate for mounting lights and such; also, there is no room to move the twist shifter inboard to make room for a longer grip. Not sure how to address this.
The kickstand is a metal triangle, spring loaded, hanging on the fork. To use it, push it down and back the bike over it. Works pretty well. However, when I hit bumps, it bounces and clangs against the stay behind the fender. That needs a rubber stop, I think. Also, it creates a significant space problem for my clown feet. It's going to take experimenting to figure how not to kick it while pedalling.
If I put the ball of my feet on the pedals and spin, as long as the pedals are forward enough, I don't hit them. This might technically be good cycling form, i'm not sure.
I don't ride that way, though; when I was commuting by bike 15 miles/day in Alaska, riding with my feet in the “proper” position invariably, around mile 4-5, resulted in toes 2-4 on either foot simply vanishing in an unnerving bit of sensation. I'd be riding along and suddenly my body awareness would report that all my toes but my big and little toes had completely and inexplicably been disintegrated halfway up to the arch of my foot. The solution I worked out was to ride on my heels, which completely solved the problem. On this bike, though, that results in lots of clanging as my toe pushes the kickstand down. Riding with my foot position in closer to where I think they 'should' be results in -more- clanging though, because of the angle of my toes.
I'd planned to ride home by the Mississippi River Trail, so I start making my way to the river. After some hair-raising navigation of roads with no shoulders or sidewalks, I get close to the river. This is when I realize something that had been bugging me, and which I really should have caught at the bike shop: the gears are not correctly dialed in. I don't have a first gear; I have 2, 3, and 3 again. So no acceleration gear. I manage, but it's quite a bit more tiring as a result. The shifting that I have access to feels pretty smooth.
I tried to stop at NOBS to get the shifter adjusted, but it was 6:00 sharp when I finally pulled into Carrolton, and the place was closed. So I haven't experienced first gear yet.
The ride is actually pretty smooth. It has a 'pickup truck' floaty feel to it, rather than the 'luxury car/station wagon' long feel of the Extracycle. The steering doesn't feel aggressive, but nonetheless, I feel like I have to keep it firmly under control at all times. It doesn't feel like it tracks too wonderfully.
I ride down to the Tchoppy Wal-Mart, completely tiring myself out in the process, as I haven't been able to get riding time in over the past month. Wife thinks I look exhausted and a bit sunburned, and makes me stay there and wait for her.
While there, I buy two of the 24 bottle flats of 20oz water bottles and some assorted small groceries. These barely fit in the basket; there's a barely a couple of inches left around the flats of water, and the two flats stacked are about the height of the basket. This is far less than i'm used to loading on the Extracycle.
Riding home loaded like that, the need to manhandle the steering is more apparent, but manageable; I doubt I could manage to haul that much water in a fork mounted front basket, but it's still a far cry from the smooth ride on the X. That said, the ride home is uneventful and very tolerable.
The wife reports that only one of the safety pedals is working, and it is not visible at any reasonable angle. Disappointing, and i'm going to have to check the pedal. I hope the rest of the 'American worksmanship' isn't that effective.
Tried to carry the bike upstairs, for lack of a better idea what to do with it. Tried. The center of gravity of the bike, unloaded, is right beside the steering column. Interesting, i'm not sure what this might mean for the engineering of it. It makes it an absolute beast to lift, even more than it's weight might indicate. (I have no idea what it weighs yet.) So I now have the thing parked downstairs locked to the post supporting the stairway, because I couldn't pick it up and get it to an angle that could navigate a staircase.
Tomorrow, I might have time to get some pictures and whatnot taken. I'm not sure what to look for for some of the things that people might want to know; let me know and i'll take a look. Or if someone in the area wants to peek at it, leave word.
Last edited by JusticeZero; 06-25-11 at 06:21 PM.
06-17-11, 01:24 PM
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I'd like to see that... not sure what to say, other than make the best of it. And you're brave riding on Tchoupatoulas on a cargo bike... not sure I'd try that, especially at night.
06-17-11, 01:28 PM
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Took a look at the shifter. Shifted into second on the shifter, the indicator dot is centered between the two lines on the Nexus shifter. Tutorial on youtube indicates that that is correct. Actually riding it, however, disagreed. Not sure what to make of that.
06-17-11, 01:29 PM
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I don't ride Tchoupitoulas. I ride on Rousseau or the street next to it (forgot the name), parallel to it. As I recall, most of the trip from Audubon Park to the Tchoppy was on Coliseum. I mostly prefer to ride the smaller streets, since it's a gridiron. Just let me know if you'll be near th Garden District anytime, i'd be happy to let you take a look.
Last edited by JusticeZero; 06-17-11 at 01:48 PM.
06-19-11, 10:26 AM
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I'll need to post this in Repair..
This is an issue with the Shimano internal hub, rather than the bike or any assembly work done on it, I think.
Adjusted the shifter to try to tune it, as advised. I ended up bringing the shifter out to the maximum extent available.
Now I have three gears: 1 (Usually first, occasionally second), 2 (sometimes second, sometimes third, about half and half), and 3 (always third, still).
As far as the gears are concerned, I got the default (44) chainwheel rather than the smaller option.
Unloaded, second is a good cruising gear. Third is on the brutal side. Loaded, it's easier to stay in first a lot, so that I can spin and not mash, even if the gearing isn't perfect for that.
But i'm in New Orleans, which is table-flat. First gear isn't what I would consider a good climbing gear with a load. It's not horrible for accelerating through intersections, but if you have any hills, spring for the smaller chainwheel set.
This is an issue with the Shimano internal hub, rather than the bike or any assembly work done on it, I think.
Adjusted the shifter to try to tune it, as advised. I ended up bringing the shifter out to the maximum extent available.
Now I have three gears: 1 (Usually first, occasionally second), 2 (sometimes second, sometimes third, about half and half), and 3 (always third, still).
As far as the gears are concerned, I got the default (44) chainwheel rather than the smaller option.
Unloaded, second is a good cruising gear. Third is on the brutal side. Loaded, it's easier to stay in first a lot, so that I can spin and not mash, even if the gearing isn't perfect for that.
But i'm in New Orleans, which is table-flat. First gear isn't what I would consider a good climbing gear with a load. It's not horrible for accelerating through intersections, but if you have any hills, spring for the smaller chainwheel set.
06-20-11, 07:26 AM
#6
khosch
I just had to say how amusing I find this. You are right! Good luck with your bike and your adoption of our fair city.
06-20-11, 06:08 PM
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Rode out to Bywater and back for some barbecue at what is maybe the best barbecue in the city.. I haven't seen anything close in any case. It's about 5 miles each way, according to Google. Props to The Joint for awesome food, happy fathers day to me.
I posted about the shifter in mechanics, but everything looks seated and in the correct place. The theory of 'wrong part inside the hub' is looking very possible.. how would that happen?
My first gear is 'hold the shifter all the way toward first, and if is shifts into second, let it slack for a moment'. Second gear is 'Hold the twist shifter halfway between first and second'. I'm gaining appreciation for thumb friction shifters, which would let me refit bigger grips, too.
The ride actually was pretty comfortable despite that. I even managed to run in third for a bit, which might lend some credence to the idea that a heavy bike doesn't much affect your top speed so much as your acceleration. Comfortable, and I don't bang the kickstand much anymore, even if i'm not sure why. The steering is actually quite comfortable and gentle despite what might have been implied. You just can't let go of it for a moment. Harder to keep on a straight line, maybe because I can't see the front wheel.
The saddle.. well, I can't rave about the saddle, but it was a lot more comfortable than i'd have expected from it by looking at it. I'm not sure offhand what the make of it is. I'd have expected a wide saddle of that type to get a bit annoying after a couple miles, but by and large, I haven't really noticed it. It does tend to squeak because of the springs when i'm spinning hard.
Along the way back, one of the the resin safety pedals *shattered*. On examination, the other one is coming apart.
Total mileage: About 40 miles of spinning.
This is "American Quality"? Viva la Asia! Folks, this is why the East is stomping us economically.
One other thing: Remember when you were a kid and had a bike, and they kept the brake and shifter pedals held to the frame with things like hose clamps and zip ties? Clearly, Worksman remembers those times. The shifter cable is guided along the frame with a black zip tie. A zip tie?! Folks, I know you believe in the classics, but there's this great brazing technique these days that's all the rage to put guides along frame pieces.. I mean even Pacific Cycles is doing it these days..
Also: I'm really getting a lot of use out of the stepthrough in the frame. A cargo bike, loaded, is a lot more annoying to tilt to kick over than the usual bicycle. A cycle truck keeps it's load much higher than an Extracycle; this is good for stability when moving, but bad when you're at rest swinging it around. If you plan to get a front loader, spring for the stepthrough frame, you'll thank me for it later.
I posted about the shifter in mechanics, but everything looks seated and in the correct place. The theory of 'wrong part inside the hub' is looking very possible.. how would that happen?
My first gear is 'hold the shifter all the way toward first, and if is shifts into second, let it slack for a moment'. Second gear is 'Hold the twist shifter halfway between first and second'. I'm gaining appreciation for thumb friction shifters, which would let me refit bigger grips, too.
The ride actually was pretty comfortable despite that. I even managed to run in third for a bit, which might lend some credence to the idea that a heavy bike doesn't much affect your top speed so much as your acceleration. Comfortable, and I don't bang the kickstand much anymore, even if i'm not sure why. The steering is actually quite comfortable and gentle despite what might have been implied. You just can't let go of it for a moment. Harder to keep on a straight line, maybe because I can't see the front wheel.
The saddle.. well, I can't rave about the saddle, but it was a lot more comfortable than i'd have expected from it by looking at it. I'm not sure offhand what the make of it is. I'd have expected a wide saddle of that type to get a bit annoying after a couple miles, but by and large, I haven't really noticed it. It does tend to squeak because of the springs when i'm spinning hard.
Along the way back, one of the the resin safety pedals *shattered*. On examination, the other one is coming apart.
Total mileage: About 40 miles of spinning.
This is "American Quality"? Viva la Asia! Folks, this is why the East is stomping us economically.
One other thing: Remember when you were a kid and had a bike, and they kept the brake and shifter pedals held to the frame with things like hose clamps and zip ties? Clearly, Worksman remembers those times. The shifter cable is guided along the frame with a black zip tie. A zip tie?! Folks, I know you believe in the classics, but there's this great brazing technique these days that's all the rage to put guides along frame pieces.. I mean even Pacific Cycles is doing it these days..
Also: I'm really getting a lot of use out of the stepthrough in the frame. A cargo bike, loaded, is a lot more annoying to tilt to kick over than the usual bicycle. A cycle truck keeps it's load much higher than an Extracycle; this is good for stability when moving, but bad when you're at rest swinging it around. If you plan to get a front loader, spring for the stepthrough frame, you'll thank me for it later.
Last edited by JusticeZero; 06-20-11 at 06:20 PM.
06-22-11, 09:13 AM
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Spoke with Worksman customer service this morning. They never heard of a resin safety pedal breaking, but it is under warrantee. Do I want to replace the pedal with another just like it? Since my wife had indicated that it wasn't really very effective anyways, i'd rather get a metal pedal. That I have to do through the shop. They offer to send new rods for the hub, as they think the wrong size was put into the hub. again, not clear when that would have happened. It is apparently easy to fix. A lot of this is shifted to the cycle shop, which bothers me faintly since the cycle shop is the place that's done no wrong that I can think of.
This doesn't bring me to the handlebars, but i'm going there anyways. There is about an inch and a half on either side of straight, flat bar real estate before they bend sharply up toward the handles. They have lots of straight and flat space then, that is not oriented forward or up. Once you get to the grips, space is vanishingly tight. The shifter is right against the curve, followed by the short grips.
This doesn't bring me to the handlebars, but i'm going there anyways. There is about an inch and a half on either side of straight, flat bar real estate before they bend sharply up toward the handles. They have lots of straight and flat space then, that is not oriented forward or up. Once you get to the grips, space is vanishingly tight. The shifter is right against the curve, followed by the short grips.
06-24-11, 02:44 PM
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Friday, June 24, 2011:
A couple days ago, I talked about a trip across town, which had issues and problems. I really am trying not to just rip on the bike, there's a lot about it to like really.. Anyways, I had thought about it a bit and said, "The saddle! I thought the saddle was actually kind've comfortable!"
Fate was challenged, and Fate decided to respond. I have still been needing to ride to the store, since we still need to get stuff like water. I was on my way home, riding on a nice, reasonably smooth street close to the apartment, when there was a *pop!* and I suddenly had the nose of the saddle pressing uncomfortably up at me.
First thought was that I had strained the seat post and the seat had dropped down a notch. I've had that happen before, when I had my saddle way back. I'm not a light person, but i'm not an absurdly unreasonable size - i'm a Clyde, but not a super-clyde. Having inexpensive seatposts adjusted too far giving way is not new to me. So I got off and checked.
Nope, the saddle broke. One of the springs gave way and popped through the place it's supposed to sit; the saddle is tilted at a weird angle.
I don't suppose anyone in New Orleans knows a bit about framebuilding and could take a look at the frame, basket, etc? I'd like to get an opinion on that quite soon - on the verge of throwing in the towel and getting a refund, even if that would leave me at a loss of how to do all our shopping and load hauling.
A couple days ago, I talked about a trip across town, which had issues and problems. I really am trying not to just rip on the bike, there's a lot about it to like really.. Anyways, I had thought about it a bit and said, "The saddle! I thought the saddle was actually kind've comfortable!"
Fate was challenged, and Fate decided to respond. I have still been needing to ride to the store, since we still need to get stuff like water. I was on my way home, riding on a nice, reasonably smooth street close to the apartment, when there was a *pop!* and I suddenly had the nose of the saddle pressing uncomfortably up at me.
First thought was that I had strained the seat post and the seat had dropped down a notch. I've had that happen before, when I had my saddle way back. I'm not a light person, but i'm not an absurdly unreasonable size - i'm a Clyde, but not a super-clyde. Having inexpensive seatposts adjusted too far giving way is not new to me. So I got off and checked.
Nope, the saddle broke. One of the springs gave way and popped through the place it's supposed to sit; the saddle is tilted at a weird angle.
I don't suppose anyone in New Orleans knows a bit about framebuilding and could take a look at the frame, basket, etc? I'd like to get an opinion on that quite soon - on the verge of throwing in the towel and getting a refund, even if that would leave me at a loss of how to do all our shopping and load hauling.
06-25-11, 06:19 PM
#10
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Saturday, June 25, 2011:
We'd planned to go on a bike trip today. But that was before my bike fell apart to the extent it did. So I needed to take it in.
At this point, we're going to return it, for reasons detailed above and below, but the owner has to take care of that, and he's out today; he'll be back Monday. So today, the plan becomes 'Take the bike to the shop to be fixed, so that I can use it to get groceries over the weekend'. This involves bus travel! Six buses in total in fact.
So I push the bus out to the curb and wait for the bus. It arrives, and I lift the bike into the rack. HEAVE!! It's a bit of a pain to get the wheels into the rack properly, due to the odd balance, but it fits.
The bus driver looks at the bike a bit dubiously. "That looks extra heavy.." She gets out of the bus and examines the rack suspiciously, before getting in and driving us to the next stop. I am suddenly concerned that some bus drivers will not allow the bike, because of the weight; certainly I won't be able to load it if I put cargo in it.
We get there, I pull the hook off the wheel, then lift. The bike doesn't move! This isn't a weight issue. It's a design issue. The shape and size of the front tire is such that the hook gets caught on it at the disengaged position, pinning it into the front tire slot. Removing the bike from the bus, therefore, is a two person affair. Someone else has to pull the hook away from the wheel while the bike is removed.
We took some pictures of the bike and looked it over.
When you think of these bikes, one image is seeing a rusted tank of a bike that looks like it's been around for decades, a trusty workhorse.
There is a second possibility though, one that now seems much more likely. Examining the basket today, we found that there was the start of significant rusting on the frame. Remember, i've only had the bike about a week and a half! More examination revealed small rust spots on the joints of the frame, and small rust spots on the bar.
It looked as though I had had the frame for a year of all weather riding. At this rate, a couple of years would reduce the bike to one of those ancient leviathan hulks. "Well, you don't want to leave the bike out in the weather." If I go to the store, and it starts raining, the bike is out in the weather. If I go riding, and it rains, it is out in the weather. This bike is intended for transportation, and it is not acceptable to have a bike made of sugar, which will melt in the rain.
The seat is changed out for an absolutely monstrously huge Worksman seat. I have a hard time imagining anyone with a posterior big enough to justify this seat's dimensions.
The shifter rod is replaced and fixed. It now shifts comfortably, not that it will matter long. They replace the pedals with alloy platforms. I can now ride the bike as intended, so that I can go get water and such this weekend.
I cannot justify this purchase to my wife anymore. This bike is going back on Monday, and I will be switching for a different bike; right now, i'm thinking an internal hub cruiser with the biggest Wald baskets front and back. Looking at volumes, that should leave me with somewhere close to the same cargo space, on a bike with standard, weather-resistant modern components and design.
This has been a review of the Worksman LGG Low Gravity Cargo Bicycle "Bicycle Truck". This is a warning. This bicycle is, in my opinion, NOT a viable option for a utility rider; get a longtail, or a bakfiets, or a bilenky, or an ahearne, or big baskets, or a trailer; pass over the Worksman option. You'll get admiring looks from the old crowd, and the hipsters might give you cred, but you can't ride cred and rep. You ride a bicycle, and this one fails.
Any questions that I can go out and look at?
We'd planned to go on a bike trip today. But that was before my bike fell apart to the extent it did. So I needed to take it in.
At this point, we're going to return it, for reasons detailed above and below, but the owner has to take care of that, and he's out today; he'll be back Monday. So today, the plan becomes 'Take the bike to the shop to be fixed, so that I can use it to get groceries over the weekend'. This involves bus travel! Six buses in total in fact.
So I push the bus out to the curb and wait for the bus. It arrives, and I lift the bike into the rack. HEAVE!! It's a bit of a pain to get the wheels into the rack properly, due to the odd balance, but it fits.
The bus driver looks at the bike a bit dubiously. "That looks extra heavy.." She gets out of the bus and examines the rack suspiciously, before getting in and driving us to the next stop. I am suddenly concerned that some bus drivers will not allow the bike, because of the weight; certainly I won't be able to load it if I put cargo in it.
We get there, I pull the hook off the wheel, then lift. The bike doesn't move! This isn't a weight issue. It's a design issue. The shape and size of the front tire is such that the hook gets caught on it at the disengaged position, pinning it into the front tire slot. Removing the bike from the bus, therefore, is a two person affair. Someone else has to pull the hook away from the wheel while the bike is removed.
We took some pictures of the bike and looked it over.
When you think of these bikes, one image is seeing a rusted tank of a bike that looks like it's been around for decades, a trusty workhorse.
There is a second possibility though, one that now seems much more likely. Examining the basket today, we found that there was the start of significant rusting on the frame. Remember, i've only had the bike about a week and a half! More examination revealed small rust spots on the joints of the frame, and small rust spots on the bar.
It looked as though I had had the frame for a year of all weather riding. At this rate, a couple of years would reduce the bike to one of those ancient leviathan hulks. "Well, you don't want to leave the bike out in the weather." If I go to the store, and it starts raining, the bike is out in the weather. If I go riding, and it rains, it is out in the weather. This bike is intended for transportation, and it is not acceptable to have a bike made of sugar, which will melt in the rain.
The seat is changed out for an absolutely monstrously huge Worksman seat. I have a hard time imagining anyone with a posterior big enough to justify this seat's dimensions.
The shifter rod is replaced and fixed. It now shifts comfortably, not that it will matter long. They replace the pedals with alloy platforms. I can now ride the bike as intended, so that I can go get water and such this weekend.
I cannot justify this purchase to my wife anymore. This bike is going back on Monday, and I will be switching for a different bike; right now, i'm thinking an internal hub cruiser with the biggest Wald baskets front and back. Looking at volumes, that should leave me with somewhere close to the same cargo space, on a bike with standard, weather-resistant modern components and design.
This has been a review of the Worksman LGG Low Gravity Cargo Bicycle "Bicycle Truck". This is a warning. This bicycle is, in my opinion, NOT a viable option for a utility rider; get a longtail, or a bakfiets, or a bilenky, or an ahearne, or big baskets, or a trailer; pass over the Worksman option. You'll get admiring looks from the old crowd, and the hipsters might give you cred, but you can't ride cred and rep. You ride a bicycle, and this one fails.
Any questions that I can go out and look at?
06-25-11, 07:46 PM
#11
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I would have to say, you're making the right decision. That Worksman bike sounds like it's a heap of garbage, and I would definitely bring it back. I don't think it's enough to say all cycletrucks are garbage, as obviously the more expensive ones would be better in lots of ways, but for what you have available there in town, I'd say you're right. Get the IGH cruiser and Wald baskets and call it a day. Sorry the cycletruck didn't work out, but you know, I would have made the same guess as you did when you got it.
06-25-11, 08:40 PM
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Oh, the basic front loader standard wheelbase design still seems like it's a good idea.
I'm not sure why the bus rack hangs the front tire, exactly - is it because the tires are fat? Or because it's a 20" tire? This is the tire that Worksman prefers, and it won't work for a bus rack properly. The basket, etc. is a freaking massive agglomeration of thick bent steel plate on either side of a sheet of heavy plywood. I seriously doubt the design really needs to have anywhere remotely near that much mass and metal to do it's job. Why are the cables zip-tied on? What's up with the metallurgy and design that the basket has substantial amounts of surface rust after only one week? We were looking at steel fence today and remarking that the fence by the cemetery had been in the weather for years, and had less rust than my basket did after a week.
None of these issues are inherent to the standard wheelbase fixed basket over the front design. The bike actually rides quite nicely, whether loaded or unloaded; a stepthrough frame is highly advised, but the thing works great for picking up a heavy load of cargo. That's the basic design geometry at work there. The basic "cycle truck" concept was, I think, proven to work fine. It seems to shine best at loading dense cargo as opposed to bulky cargo; I could fill the rack to the top with canned goods and bottled water, and it still rode in an extremely stable and comfortable manner. I had to step through the frame when I had that much on it, but I could do it without blinking. The handling was almost totally unaffected, and potholes were no big deal.
It's just that this specific bike design was constructed, well.. badly. The parts were shoddy. One could not change out the crankarms, they looked like a single piece S shaped bent bar like you find on a box store kids bike. THE THING WAS RUSTING APART AFTER A WEEK!! The welding was dubious in places to my wife's untrained eyes. The reflector was mounted bizarrely because nobody could be bothered to drill a second hole to mount it right. The chain came from the shop looking like it had been dipped in motor oil. Just all these little touches that add up to a bike that feels like something that could be dramatically improved in quality by being redesigned by Next.
I'm looking forward to seeing some reimagining of the cycletruck by some other manufacturers. The configuration still works great. -I- won't be able to get one, though. Price points would be all over the place for awhile, and in any case, it seems that people are, by and large, adopting longtails as the cargo design of choice. There are great reasons for this; i've used a longtail, and it worked amazingly well, with the caveat of the bus rack problem. Cycle truck seemed like the best way to solve it, and the standard is always described as the Worksman, which everyone knows about but nobody had ever ridden.
Well, I rode it. It was junk. So now people can take that knowledge and.. I don't know, either go design a better one, or go get longtails, or something.
I'm not sure why the bus rack hangs the front tire, exactly - is it because the tires are fat? Or because it's a 20" tire? This is the tire that Worksman prefers, and it won't work for a bus rack properly. The basket, etc. is a freaking massive agglomeration of thick bent steel plate on either side of a sheet of heavy plywood. I seriously doubt the design really needs to have anywhere remotely near that much mass and metal to do it's job. Why are the cables zip-tied on? What's up with the metallurgy and design that the basket has substantial amounts of surface rust after only one week? We were looking at steel fence today and remarking that the fence by the cemetery had been in the weather for years, and had less rust than my basket did after a week.
None of these issues are inherent to the standard wheelbase fixed basket over the front design. The bike actually rides quite nicely, whether loaded or unloaded; a stepthrough frame is highly advised, but the thing works great for picking up a heavy load of cargo. That's the basic design geometry at work there. The basic "cycle truck" concept was, I think, proven to work fine. It seems to shine best at loading dense cargo as opposed to bulky cargo; I could fill the rack to the top with canned goods and bottled water, and it still rode in an extremely stable and comfortable manner. I had to step through the frame when I had that much on it, but I could do it without blinking. The handling was almost totally unaffected, and potholes were no big deal.
It's just that this specific bike design was constructed, well.. badly. The parts were shoddy. One could not change out the crankarms, they looked like a single piece S shaped bent bar like you find on a box store kids bike. THE THING WAS RUSTING APART AFTER A WEEK!! The welding was dubious in places to my wife's untrained eyes. The reflector was mounted bizarrely because nobody could be bothered to drill a second hole to mount it right. The chain came from the shop looking like it had been dipped in motor oil. Just all these little touches that add up to a bike that feels like something that could be dramatically improved in quality by being redesigned by Next.
I'm looking forward to seeing some reimagining of the cycletruck by some other manufacturers. The configuration still works great. -I- won't be able to get one, though. Price points would be all over the place for awhile, and in any case, it seems that people are, by and large, adopting longtails as the cargo design of choice. There are great reasons for this; i've used a longtail, and it worked amazingly well, with the caveat of the bus rack problem. Cycle truck seemed like the best way to solve it, and the standard is always described as the Worksman, which everyone knows about but nobody had ever ridden.
Well, I rode it. It was junk. So now people can take that knowledge and.. I don't know, either go design a better one, or go get longtails, or something.
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06-25-11, 09:58 PM
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This is the wife posting now. For one, I can honestly say, I MISS THE XTRACYCLE!!! That badboy would haul everything including the kid. I've tried to no avail to convince him to have it shipped down to us and have an extra bike for trips where we might need to use the bus. So he bought this hulk of a bike which has already started rusting after being in only 2 rainstorms. If it can't weather a couple of rainstorms, how the heck is it going to last for years to come like they are bragged about to do in other reviews? I don't see it. The guy at the bike shop said it's not meant to be out in the weather to which I responded, "If you are in Walmart and it rains, what are you supposed to do then? It's still out in the weather." He looked at me as if I had 2 heads and green skin and just got hopped out of a spaceship. If the bike is already rusting after only being in 2 rainstorms, one of which we rode through, then wow!! It is clearly an indoor bike meant only for warehouse use or in a nice dry, non rainy climate. My bike has withstood 2 winters in Anchorage. Road sand, snow, water, ice and hasn't rusted and it was kept outside. What does Trek use for paint and why doesn't Worksmen use it? Oh well, here are some pics of the bike that I took today. 
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06-26-11, 06:24 AM
#15
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Looks like Worksman has some quality control issues...
They will rust, I worked at an Alcoa primary metals plant that had a huge fleet of Worksman bikes and trikes, some were pushing 30 years old, they all had rust on them, some were totally rust colored. I don't trust plastic pedals of any sort, I have broken my fair share of them.
I suspect for what the LGB cost you could have had the extra cycle shipped and still have a bit of money left over.
Aaron
They will rust, I worked at an Alcoa primary metals plant that had a huge fleet of Worksman bikes and trikes, some were pushing 30 years old, they all had rust on them, some were totally rust colored. I don't trust plastic pedals of any sort, I have broken my fair share of them.
I suspect for what the LGB cost you could have had the extra cycle shipped and still have a bit of money left over.
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
06-26-11, 08:24 AM
#16
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Yeah, I still have that option. It's just that we have extremely limited room, and a need to be able to load the bikes on public transit. We live in an efficiency apartment, with no special parking and no bike rack, so if I park a bike outside, it's going in a small number of odd places in a small courtyard. If I have multiple bikes, I start eating up all the potential bike parking for the entire building.
I've tried the 'trip planning' thing, and it seems like any sort of minor emergency results in switching a trip from a biking only trip into a transit-using trip, and then I have grief about 'But I don't want to go on the bus alone while you're riding!!'
I evaluated the situation, and realized that until I have my assistantships and aid and such flowing, N must be no greater than 1, and that N must fit on a bus.
I've tried the 'trip planning' thing, and it seems like any sort of minor emergency results in switching a trip from a biking only trip into a transit-using trip, and then I have grief about 'But I don't want to go on the bus alone while you're riding!!'
I evaluated the situation, and realized that until I have my assistantships and aid and such flowing, N must be no greater than 1, and that N must fit on a bus.
06-26-11, 11:20 AM
#17
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Just to re-iterate that cycle trucks work fine on the whole - I just hauled about 100 pounds of groceries (85 pounds of water, plus vegetables and bottles of stuff) home over broken up back streets. That's added to my Clydesdale self. Steering was COMPLETELY UNAFFECTED. The only difference between riding it unloaded and loaded was when I stopped or started, because the bike was heavy with all that weight.
Just mentioning this because I saw in Touring someone else poohing the idea because 'all that weight over the front wheel is going to give you steering problems!' That seems common. Completely unfounded. Had the thing been less of a lemon, and not hung up on a bus rack, i'd say it was a success.
Just mentioning this because I saw in Touring someone else poohing the idea because 'all that weight over the front wheel is going to give you steering problems!' That seems common. Completely unfounded. Had the thing been less of a lemon, and not hung up on a bus rack, i'd say it was a success.
06-26-11, 02:24 PM
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/9938441...57626644855193
You can make it lighter and make it work, but there's a fair bit of money and work involved.
You can make it lighter and make it work, but there's a fair bit of money and work involved.
06-26-11, 04:39 PM
#19
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Saturday, June 25, 2011:
This has been a review of the Worksman LGG Low Gravity Cargo Bicycle "Bicycle Truck". This is a warning. This bicycle is, in my opinion, NOT a viable option for a utility rider; get a longtail, or a bakfiets, or a bilenky, or an ahearne, or big baskets, or a trailer; pass over the Worksman option. You'll get admiring looks from the old crowd, and the hipsters might give you cred, but you can't ride cred and rep. You ride a bicycle, and this one fails.
Any questions that I can go out and look at?
This has been a review of the Worksman LGG Low Gravity Cargo Bicycle "Bicycle Truck". This is a warning. This bicycle is, in my opinion, NOT a viable option for a utility rider; get a longtail, or a bakfiets, or a bilenky, or an ahearne, or big baskets, or a trailer; pass over the Worksman option. You'll get admiring looks from the old crowd, and the hipsters might give you cred, but you can't ride cred and rep. You ride a bicycle, and this one fails.
Any questions that I can go out and look at?
I've ridden Worksman for over 40 years and have seen them take enormous abuse in the factory where I retired from.
By all means contact Worksman so they can address the warranty issue instead of making your case here where Worksman can't fix a thing.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
06-26-11, 10:57 PM
#20
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I had actually contacted Worksman at one point. They waranteed out the pedals and the shifter. Those were fixed at the shop. Nonetheless, the issues with them are indicators. I have no doubts that the thing could be ridden by cockroaches after the nuclear apocalypse, just so long as it isn't parked out in the rain.
But it does not do the ONE THING I GOT IT TO BE ABLE TO DO, and it has all sorts of minor rust after just two exposures to rain. Some of that looks like it creeps into some of the basket welds. I've had enough issues, some fairly inherent, that I can't justify owning the thing. Had it slipped neatly in and out of bus racks and not shown all the weather resistance of the Wicked Witch of the West, I could have dealt with the problems. Those aren't little 'oh we'll drop it off at the shop' issues. I need reliable utility transportation 365 days a year, and I need to be able to throw it on a bus.
But it does not do the ONE THING I GOT IT TO BE ABLE TO DO, and it has all sorts of minor rust after just two exposures to rain. Some of that looks like it creeps into some of the basket welds. I've had enough issues, some fairly inherent, that I can't justify owning the thing. Had it slipped neatly in and out of bus racks and not shown all the weather resistance of the Wicked Witch of the West, I could have dealt with the problems. Those aren't little 'oh we'll drop it off at the shop' issues. I need reliable utility transportation 365 days a year, and I need to be able to throw it on a bus.
06-26-11, 11:37 PM
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Sounds like you got a lemon. But from what I've worked on, I have not been impressed with Worksman. They are super heavy and are cheaply made. Plastic pedals suck on any bike...they break too easily.
Hope you find something that will work. If they'll take it back, I'd get something different. There are several options. Have you thought about using a trailer?
I do know a gentleman who does a lot of fab work here in town on bikes. However, that route is never cheap. PM or email me.
Hope you find something that will work. If they'll take it back, I'd get something different. There are several options. Have you thought about using a trailer?
I do know a gentleman who does a lot of fab work here in town on bikes. However, that route is never cheap. PM or email me.
06-27-11, 12:45 AM
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The current plan is to find a 3 speed cruiser type bicycle, avoiding crank forward, which has fenders and geometry suitable to mount a Wald front delivery basket and their largest rear baskets without heel strike. A trailer adds another vehicle to park in our efficiency apartment, currently occupied by three people.
06-27-11, 08:25 AM
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Just a quick reply from the manufacturer. We are extremely interested in gaining totally satisfied customers. There are a few points I would like to clarify, as a dealer may not have conveyed the correct information to the customer, or somewhere things got lost in the translation.
First, our basket size has not changed for the Low Gravity Series. The materials it is made from has, creating a better basket with less chance of small items slipping between the slats. The basket still sits on our balance- tru steering system, thus the basket does not turn with the handlebars. It takes a little getting used to but allows a great method of carrying heavier loads in a front basket set up. The front triangular kickstand is vital as side stands would not support a bike with this sort of front basket payload.
On Low Gravity Bikes, when front drum brakes are ordered, the brake are strap included is designed to attach to the standard fork. I do not know the sequence of events here as to why a new fork was requested...will investigate.
Recently Bicycling magazine did a great write up of the Worksman LGG with 3 speed and Drum brake upgrades.....
I do hope the customer eventually comes to appreciate the bike, its durability and its handling characteristics and will enjoy the experience of riding an American made Worksman Cycle for decades to come.
First, our basket size has not changed for the Low Gravity Series. The materials it is made from has, creating a better basket with less chance of small items slipping between the slats. The basket still sits on our balance- tru steering system, thus the basket does not turn with the handlebars. It takes a little getting used to but allows a great method of carrying heavier loads in a front basket set up. The front triangular kickstand is vital as side stands would not support a bike with this sort of front basket payload.
On Low Gravity Bikes, when front drum brakes are ordered, the brake are strap included is designed to attach to the standard fork. I do not know the sequence of events here as to why a new fork was requested...will investigate.
Recently Bicycling magazine did a great write up of the Worksman LGG with 3 speed and Drum brake upgrades.....
I do hope the customer eventually comes to appreciate the bike, its durability and its handling characteristics and will enjoy the experience of riding an American made Worksman Cycle for decades to come.
06-27-11, 09:27 AM
#24
khosch
Hi - I just want to say this, which you probably already have thought of... If you are going to live in the garden district maybe you should shop for your bike closer to home. Closer than Kenner anyway! There are several very good bike shops closer to you than that....
06-27-11, 12:01 PM
#25
On a Mission from God
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thibodaux, LA
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even you have to admit, it looks like QC is slipping in the last 40 years. Since JusticeZero lives less than an hour from me and uses it in the same environment, I value his input more than somebody like Bicycling Magazine, or you, to give me the straight scoop on it. I'd give you the "when you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" bit, but I'm sure you've heard that before. Sooner or later you're going to have to admit that the Worksmans of today are not the same quality as they were 40 years ago, and they are not the right tool for every job. Period.And I can't get over 73 pounds. I knew the things were heavy, but 73 pounds?? That's fully-decked-out bakfiets territory. The Civia Halsted only weighs 40 and has a disk brake and 8 gears. I'm sure the Worksman would be fine for using at a factory, but there's no way I would use one for city riding, knowing what I know now.
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