1Sherlock1

I think I am finally Able to post a link.
The ad for the Miyata:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-road-bike/ci...rce=ios_social

The ad for the Nishiki:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-road-bike/ci...rce=ios_social

hopefully these work.

rgvg

Okay it looks to me it's an 84 Continental vs an 86 610. Sorry no 84 catalog that I could google for the Nishiki. So I guess in 84 the tubing was changed to Tange 900. That's not entirely a bad thing though it is seamed. I've ridden an 84 International (Tange 900) and an 85 (Infinity) they seemed fine.

https://www.ragandbone.ca/PDFs/Miyat...logue%2086.pdf

The rd at least has been changed on the Miyata. And the fork's been stripped of paint unless it's been changed. Some people would be wary of a changed fork as it might be a sign of a replacement due to a front end crash. That's not necessarily the case here, of course.

Tough call. You can't go wrong with either one I think. Get the one that speaks most to you.

Hobbiano 

Looks like a replacement fork on the Miyata, as the originals weren't chrome, and the picture of the fork crown looks like chrome to me, rather than just polished steel. But it looks like there might be mid fork braze on's on it, which would seem to imply it was a touring fork. The usual cautions about a replacement fork apply. Like what happened to the original? Front end crash? It's not obvious from the picture. And what's with the French headset? Even though it looks really good otherwise, that fork would bother me. I'd probably pass - but that's just me. It's an '86. Rear derailleur and freewheel are not original. Rims and 36/40 spoke count seem correct.
The Nishiki looks pretty good, except for possibly the rust on the cable guides and maybe some other spots on the top tube, that should be dealt with. You'd never get a perfect touch up. And you'd want to make sure that seat post isn't stuck, with the flutes sunk in the frame that allows moister to collect. Same goes for the Miyata, but the Nishiki looks like it's seen a bit more weather. Looks to have 36/40 spoked wheels as well.
$400 Can. is $315 US. I live in South Louisiana, where nice older bikes are rare and overpriced when they show up, and I wouldn't be in a rush to get either of these at $315. JMO. Got any others to choose from?

1Sherlock1

I will ask why the fork was changed on the Miyata but is there any thing I should look out go for in regard to damage to the frame?
regarding rust on the frame, I assume a little cleaning off and touch up paint should solve the issue. Is there a good paint for small touch ups, knowing a colour match is not possible?
I found a Miyata 615 for a slightly higher price here:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-road-bike/ki...rce=ios_social
but it is an hour plus drive each way.
I see a Miyata 600Gt for $650 -yikes.

in general prices for bikes in Toronto are crazy. Possibly the result of the pandemic and cost of new bikes.

rgvg

As far as front end damage goes, you could run your finger under the top and down tubes to see if you can feel any bulges or buckling.

Hobbiano 

The what I can tell from the pictures, that aren't great, the 615 looks ok. It's missing the little chainring, and bolts - you can even see the empty bolt holes on the inside of the crank. Not sure why someone would remove it. You'd want to make sure the threaded holes where you bolt on the small chainring looked ok. If you had to buy a small chainring and bolts new it would probably cost at least $40. The 615's came with a triple chainring.

It also has a kickstand installed, which is often a bad sign. What happens is they get loose after a while, so someone tightens the mounting bolt, then a while later same thing happens again, and again, and so on, thereby damaging the paint and gradually crushing the chainstays where it clamps on. So you'd want to remove it to make sure any damage wasn't too bad. The damage is usually cosmetic but it hurts the value of the frame and many people wont buy a bike with dented chainstays.

As far as touching up the rust spots (beware of any deep pitting) and/or paint chips you could use something like Evaporust or a similar solution to remove and neutralize the rust them apply a primer and follow up with the closest color match you can find, such as Testors model enamel - you can mix different colors to try to get a close match, or auto touch up paint. It's not impossible to get a good touch up but it's usually a matter of getting it just good enough. You could even remove & treat the rust as best as you can and just seal it with clear fingernail polish then wax. If it starts rusting again just repeat.

Make sure to check that the wheels are fairly true, with no abrupt flat spots or wobbles. It's a good idea to remove them so you can turn the axles with your fingers feeling for any roughness. If the are cartridge bearings the whole bearing can be replaced but if they are conventional cup and cone bearings roughness can be a sign of damaged cups or cones, which can be difficult (cones) or impossible (cups) to find replacements. Or, they may just need cleaning/re-greasing. Cartridge bearings can be re-greased as well.

1Sherlock1

Thanks everyone for all your comments, observations and suggestions. I went with the Miyata 610. The seller didn’t know when the front fork and headset were replaced - he had only owned it for a year. He described himself as a collector who occasionally sold off bikes. As best I could tell there wasn’t any damage to the frame. Wheels were true. Very few chips in the paint. Certainly looks great.
The Nishiki was also very nice and was tempting but in the end it came down to the ride. The 610 tracked more effortlessly.
James

Dfrost 

Congratulations! Don’t be a stranger.

Now you can contribute to the big Miyata Cult thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...yata-cult.html

Hobbiano 

Can't wait to see some updated pictures!

1Sherlock1

Absolutely! I will send some pictures.

1Sherlock1

I wish I had time during the day to take these pictures outside.


Some pin hole corrosion of the chrome fork


Paint looks amazing to me. A few chips, especially on the chain stays.

Sansin Gyro Master hubs

Stronglight France headset

Shimano Hyper Glide 7

1Sherlock1

One question: there isn’ta quick release on the centre pull brakes. Is releasing the brake line the only way to remove the wheels? The fine adjusting nuts - there must be a technical term for them- along the brake lines have no slack to loosen off the pads. Not much use in having quick release hubs if you have to release the brake pads every time you want to remove the wheels .
I have seen quick release levers for centre pull brakes. Are these available for any centre pull brake?

noobinsf 

I'm pretty sure you just have to give a tug to the non-cinched end of the straddle cable, and that should give you enough slack to pop the barrel end out of the brake arm. If not, then there are brake handles with quick releases you can get. Anything made for drop handlebars and caliper or cantilever brakes would work. In other words, no mountain levers, and no "linear pull" levers, which are for v-brakes; levers are typically labeled as such either way, so there's minimal to no guessing.

EDIT: Looks like these -- https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...117&AbsPos=490

1Sherlock1

I will try again tomorrow. There is so little clearance between the pads and rim, I assumed there wouldn’t be enough slack when I bought the bike to remove the wheel and may simply not have tried hard enough.

Thanks. I just looked at the link
Quick release - Yes, Straddle cable.
obviously I have never had cantilever brakes before…..

Hobbiano 

The bike looks in nice shape. I like the red with the contrasting head tube.
Couldn't help but notice the gear you have it in in the pictures, the "big chainring / big cog" is not a gear you should ever use when riding as it uses up all the slack in the chain and if the chain's too short can damage your derailleur, dropout, and even your wheel, if it pulls the derailleur into the spokes. It also causes the most misalignment of the chain line resulting in excess wear and friction. The small chainring / small cog is also to be avoided since it usually results in a loose chain and also causes misalignment. So, generally, the big chainring goes with the smaller five cogs, the small chainring with the larger cogs, and the middle chainring, with the middle five cogs (on a seven speed freewheel). My apologies if you already knew this.
If you have trouble releasing the straddle cable on your brakes you may have to loosen the cable adjustment a little bit, increasing the pad to rim clearance so there is just enough slack to do so.
Also you should always have 2" to 2-1/2" minimum of the stem inserted into the fork, so that the wedge is below the threaded portion of the fork, for safety and to prevent damage to the fork. Often there is a minimum insertion line on the stem. It looks like it might be a little high in the photos.
Again, I apologize if you already knew all this.

Prowler 

From the photo, it looks like the brake pads are set closer than needed, which does inhibit releasing the cable. Try setting them away a bit more. I now have 5 bikes with canti brakes and mine have more clearance than your photo shows. "Works fine, every time, fail safe and never needs repair."

BTW those old straddle cables can take a set and frustrate centering of the pads. You can use new mtn brake cables, cut to length. On one of mine I crimped a brass spoke nipple on the cable above the leaded end to serve as a "handle" to hold the cable while I release it. Working just fine so far and the bit of brass is SO C&V.

jet sanchEz

If these are the bikes posted on the Toronto kijiji by the same seller, they've both been listed for many months and in the case of the Nishiki, it has been lingering for more than 6 months.

I personally think that the nishiki looks nice

Offer him $300 and see what happens

Edit: ooooops, my bad, I didn't load the second page

1Sherlock1

Those are the ones. However, having gone with the Miyata, I wouldn’t have a use for the Nishiki.

thumpism 

Wash your mouth out with soap, young man! Those words are anathema in C&V!

1Sherlock1

Thanks again to everyone for the comments. A few (final?) responses to some of them:
Turns out, even with the tight clearance to the rims, it is possible to remove the straddle cable to release the brakes. That’s a relief.
i will confirm but I think the handle bar stem is sufficiently into the fork. What may have looked like a line indicating the minimum embedment was exceeded looks like a mark from when the handlebars were inserted deeper into the fork. Still, I will pull the stem out at some point just to confirm.
Regarding the gears, although I have never heard about the chain failing or the derailleur bending into the spokes, I was aware there are gears that are not used. I thought of this as simple a racking issue where the chain has to deviate too far from the front crank to the rear derailleur to run smoothly. Typically I wouldn’t use the gear combination shown in the photos.
Can’t have too many bikes? I already have 7 or 8 bikes of various shapes and sizes in my garage, along with two large radial arm saws, a full size woodworking bench, and a router table. And I don’t have a large garage. My car has never seen the inside of my garage. None of the bikes are very interesting- just the wife’s and kid’s.
The “young man” comment. If only…. The only bike I ever bought new was an early 80’s Centurion Semi Pro. I was in my early 20’s at the time. Regrettably it was stolen after many years in my garage. Still, given my knees, I am probably better off with a touring bike and more forgiving gears and frame.
By the way, the Centurion was beautiful. Brilliant orange frame and chrome lugs. A few months ago I saw one for sale for something like $250 Canadian on kijiji. It looked great and I called the same day, but a fellow who has a shop in Toronto with hundreds of high end bikes beat me to the call and I lost out. Part of me wants to cry….

davester

Definitely do that soon. That stem looks way too high to me.

1Sherlock1

Finally checked the handlebar stem embedment into the fork and it was OK. Thanks.