bikesdirect_com

WOW

very interesting

Could you give me details on that
Durability is big asset of Ti over CF
but where do you feel the CF has an edge??

Comfort?
Looks?
Handling?
Weight?

I really would like to know anyones take on this

mike

scotch

+10. Pages like this are a nightmare of bad web design.

iab

My only advice is do some real research to determine a pricing strategy. Open-ended questions on an internet forum will not give you any quantitative data and I would be suspect of any qualitative data you may aquire.

bikesdirect_com

I understand some do not like the site layout:
of course, we are all about bike value

And oddly, we get more positive customer comments on the site than negative

I have been shocked to see how many people go out of their way to write and say how much they liked the site and how it made it easy to buy.

Go figure; I am not an expert on web sites; just on bikes
Someday, I think we will just open another site that looks different

And although many on BF see Motobecane and Bd as the same; I do not at all
and within 5 years everyone will know what I mean by that

Motobecane to me is a Brand Name
BD is just one place you can buy a Moto or something else

mike

elemental

The more I think about this, the more I think a Ti Tiagra bike (and then 105/Rival/Ultegra/Force/Dura-Ace built on the same frame) would be in line with what you're trying to do value-wise. While I don't think it would be easy to take on Litespeed and the other big Ti makers, you could really carve out a niche in the entry-level Ti market. I have a feeling Cannondale's Tiagra Six13s will sell like proverbial hotcakes.

In fact, I don't even know how many 105 Ti bikes there are out there. That might accomplish your purpose as well.

ElJamoquio

I don't know which would be better, but I would not buy a Ti frame; I'd much rather have a CF bike.

GP

Litespeed Firenze. I don't think they were a big seller.

MillCreek

That's correct. Clearly, if you wanted to sell a cyclocross that could be used for official races, you would forego the disk brakes. The lack of very many road or cyclocross frames with disk brakes is a pet peeve of mine, brought on by how much more efficient disk brakes are in my wet Seattle weather. But a titanium cyclocross, with the durability, light weight and corrosion resistance, not to mention the bling factor, would be very, very interesting. IF sells a titanium cross bike, but as a custom frame, cost is high and production numbers are low.

And as a somewhat older cyclist, i just have not yet warmed up to CF frames. I currently have five bicycles: one lugged steel, three aluminum and one titanium. I could easily afford CF, but the crashworthiness is something in the back of my head, although there is much data showing the abuse that CF can withstand.

edzo

CF rides awesome on road

Ti rides awesome on trail as a hardtail

Ti rides awesome in XC

iansir

It would make a lot of sense (to me) to keep disc brake mounts on the frame (but not stock with disc brakes, they are also much more expensive), its not like this is a major $$ cost but having that versatility there is very worthwhile and marketable. Road/cross bikes with disc brakes are getting much more popular around here (pacific NW), in fact thats what I'm bulding right now. An affordable Ti frame for this application would be ideal (and awesome).

iansir

This type of stuff is silly and has been covered in many many threads before. Much of the ride quality has to do with frame design/construction, tires, wheels, etc. Stereotyping a certain frame material is worthless. There are stiff CF bikes and noodly CF bikes. There are stiff Ti frames and noodly Ti frames.

brianallan

I'd be happy to tell you, but your comments just make me think your involvement in the bike business is a bit misguided and definitely uninformed. But by all means, lead the lemmings to their motobecanes.

Ti is extremely durable, rust proof, and long lasting. Some of this in contrast to carbon fiber, with varying degrees of importance. Everyone has a story of their 92' Trek OCLV still rolling strong, in fact I have a 93' Specialized Elite with CF tubes in Aluminum lugs. CF however, does have a life span. What that span is, and if your average consumer really cares is another question.

Without going in to great depth, I'm going to list my feelings on the criteria you listed:

Comfort: Ti. Not to say CF is uncomfortable, but Ti is one of the plushest materials to build frames out of. It's actually softer than steel in some frames.
Looks: A beautiful built Ti frame represents one of the most coveted aesthetics in bicycles. There are of course beautiful CF frames, but I love the classic look of Ti (once considered futuristic)
Handling: Depends on the geometry. This question doesn't really apply to material properties.
Weight: Light, not as light as the lightest CF frames, but with Ti, the lighter you go the flexier it gets. It's plenty light though. Frames of 2.5lbs are easily achieved in Ti. I'd say one of the biggest benifits of a well made CF frame over Ti, is that at 1200g, your CF frame will likely be considerably stiffer than the Ti frame.

MillCreek

That is certainly a thought. A potential sticky wicket is finding rear racks that co-exist with disc brakes, but they are certainly out there, if not altogether plentiful. I liked the one that REI put on the Novara Fusion this year.

marqueemoon

I'd like a nicely welded round tubed straight gauge ti road frame with slightly sloping top tube, shifter bosses, a brushed finish, and optional (or non-existent) decals. No integrated/internal headsets, funky post sizes, or weird bottom bracket shells, please.

rruff

Of course they do! What about removing a decal would void a warranty?

It is inherent that a Ti frame would have easily removable decals (no clear coat). But if you make them tasteful and attractive, and build a good rep for the brand, then people will tend to leave them on. I'm thinking of the Airborne frames which were low-priced and yet decent quality and people were not ashamed to own them. I think $1000 Ti frames are a bit much though, since there are other Ti frames with a good rep that are less expensive... like this place: https://www.habcycles.com/... unless of course your $1000 frame has some exotic features.

soccerun8728

Personally, I think that a cheaper priced titanium bike could make it in this market. As some other people already posted spec it with 105 or even Rival and have a nice looking and good quality frame. On your website if you could post detailed pictures of the welds, which usually show the craftsmanship of the frame, that might be a good thing.

I have always wanted a Titanium frame for its quality's as well as how attractive the frames are. If you want to associate Motobecane with a higher quality bike, I'll be happy to show it around my college campus and talk to people about the benefit of Motobecane bikes. Also, getting ideas or feedback from forums is a good idea.

Stickney

I have zero idea what your customer demographics are currently, but a well made TI road or cyclocross frame could be intriguing to the TI market. In particular, I would love to see a TI cyclocross frame. Used TI XC frames are few and far between and run 800ish even for 5+yr old frames.

There are lots of smaller TI manufacturers and some in the under 1,000 range, so your frame would need to be quality not just cheap.

I am not sure where the low-end price point of TI would be, but I imagine there would be customers interested in the perceived durability and rarity of a TI frame.

ridethecliche

If you give me one, I'll use it during group rides and ride it when I start racing.

How's that for a great deal!

merlinextraligh

I bought a Giant TCR Advanced Team, and kept the Merlin Extralight.

If you told me I could only have one, it would be the Giant. However, the Merlin stil has it's place,and I stil ride it.

It's a more comfortable century bike. (Partially due to its geometry,and its setup, but also partially due to the material IMHO).

Also, I'm more comofrtable traveling with it. No paint, or clear coat to chip, and its very durable.

So my big goal race of the year tha tI have to fly to, and will be 2 very long days (Everest Challenge) I'm riding the Merlin.

Jinker

I agree with rruff. If the decal is *understated* I would definitely leave it on the bike. If someone likes my bike, I'm happy to let them know where to get one of their own (verbally or by looking at the label on the bike).

On the other hand I don't like being a rolling billboard. Bikes with 20 decals mentioning every technology and attribute about the bike, plus the brand name 10 times, seem obnoxious to me.

What I think would be REALLY cool is if the brand name was legible and obvious, but in an understated location. On the chainstays, or maybe on the seat tube. No loud colours please.

As for equipment/price point, I think a 'value' 105 version with serviceable components would be interesting. Decent quality box section rims (105/Open Pros?), 105 drivetrain, reasonable aluminum components elsewhere. This would focus on the reliability/durability angle of the bike. Put braze-ons for a rack for people who want to do light touring with it. May as well make the bike you own forever a versatile bike.

On top of the 'value' model, a flashier, higher spec dura ace or record bike. Put some good quality deep dish wheels on it. Whatever light carbon bits you can, a nice wing handlebar, stem, seatpost etc. This is for the rider who wants to show off that they're on an ultra-cool Ti bike.

Third option, frameset. If the price was right, cannibalizing an existing bike becomes attractive. There's a lot of bikes out there with mid-range components, built on cheap aluminum frames. I'd gladly sacrifice a year old Trek 1600 to build up a Ti bike.

I'm not in the market right now (and can't even buy your bikes 'legitimately' because I'm in Canada) but appreciate the niches you're trying to fill. I picked myself up an Outcast 26er on eBay a couple weeks ago.

tkehler

I have a custom TST -- made in Washington State -- cross bike and it is excellent. I sold a Marinoni custom steel bike (to a friend) to get this bike, and its got mainly FSA stuff and is Ultegra. It's my all-rounder. I change wheelsets to get fat knobby tires when I want to tour on it or tow kids, and then I change back when I want to go fast.

Ti has such a nice ride, all other things (geom. etc) being equal.

Lots of people admire my bike because you don't see that many ti cross bikes. I bet one could sell lots to people who would look at a Crosscheck (or Poprad or Soma or Jake) and would be willing to pay a bit more for a ti bike....

DinoShepherd

The unfortunate market fact is that, despite being a great material, Ti is not that fashionable anymore.

I would like to pay about $1K for a nice Ti frame.

The other downer from a manufacturer standpoint about Ti is that it is a lifetime deal for the consumer. My LiteSpeed MTB has 14 years of racing and abuse on it and it still rides like a puppy.

-Z

doctrine

I just bought a CF bike (Kestrel Talon) so this is pretty relevent question to me - I don't think I would've gone for Ti for this type of bike. I wanted to try something really different (my two other bikes are steel), plus I just like the lines of the Talon frame.


Now you have my attention. I've been thinking a Cross bike would be cool to have for commuting and general bad weather stuff. With racks & fenders it would probably make a great car substitute from time to time. For this purpose I would consider Ti - a disc brake capable frame/fork would be a big plus.

And re: decals, as others have said I don't mind them if they're not too garish. My slate gray Windsor "The Hour" is a good example.

- Brian

Volfy

A flagship Ti bike to boost the Moto brand is not a bad idea. It would be a far better frame to hang your Record bits than the LSL and Bottecchia. $1000 per frame had better be quality and finish to match. I would bite, but only if it comes in 1cm increments to fit me just right. None of that 3cm jump with CF frames.

REL: decals, as with others here, I don't mind the Moto name. If the brand name bothers me, I shouldn't buy it in the first place. I do, however, agree that the Moto font type, size and placement could use a little tweaking. I don't mind them on my two 700HT and IF, but the 240 pt font size would look out of place on a Ti frame. Afterall, many folks prefer Ti for its raw esthetics. Covering it up with huge letter decals would defeat that purpose.

I like my Windsor Knight decals. Classy, understated, and not too obtrusive.

bikesdirect_com

I am thinking $1000 for frameset - which includes Reynolds Ouzo fork and nice headset.