1simplexnut

Does this look right ?
Repaint ?
26.4mm seat post seems right .
Paint just looks a bit too good (from this distance) to be right .

CliffordK

I haven't seen those lugs and fork on a Motobecane, although most of the ones I've encountered were from the 1960's and 1970's.

What does the sticker on the top tube say?

Looking at photos on the web, by the mid 80's, Motobecane started selling bikes with a similar aero rear stays. But, the seat tube lug still looks a bit different from what you have.

T-Mar

Based on the extensive chroming, Columbus tubeset and La Redoute decal on the top tube, it would appear to be a Team Champion, which was claimed to be a exact replica of the bicycles used by the La Redoute pro team. The only years that show cables routed below the top tube are 1983 and 1984 but the 1984 model was inexternally brazed, so that leaves 1983. However, I notice that you are in new Zealand and I don't know how much market to market variation existed. However, if it truly is a Team Replica, I wouldn't think that there wouldn't be any such variation. Regardless, it's not a perfect match. This model typically came with a number peg and the blue seems too bright. The catalogues describe it as Night Blue.

El Chaba

As another data point, the chain stay/rear dropout treatment is consistent with other Team Champions. It is rather unique and a pretty good spotting feature.

1simplexnut

Hi T-Mar .
Thank you
As always a mine of information
There are some other pics which I will load up shortly .
The fella who is the new owner bought it as his first bike build ( brave man some would say )

The more I look at it , the more I suspect a repaint . The level of corrosion to the chrome seems out of step with the paintwork .

1simplexnut

what is going on with that groove under the top tube ?

cinelli BB SHELL

1simplexnut

hi there ,
Have added a pic of the rear dropouts .
Do they look right for a Moto ?

1simplexnut

Hi I agree with you , it does not look quite right .
Motobecanes are not my usual flavour .
That being said I like the look of this frame .

Chombi1 

It seems like almost all the pro factory French teams defaulted to Columbus or Reynolds tubing for their steel pro bikes.
I wonder shy they did not try to promote French tubing makers like Vitus. I'm sure Vitus would have tried to even develop tubing with specifications that could match the Italian tubing makers if it meant more commercial exposure in the pro circuit.

El Chaba

Definitely. Beautiful frame, by the way.

T-Mar

Good point on the dropouts. I hadn't picked up on them in the original pics. Those are Campagnolo dropouts, which were used pre-1982, per the literature. However, those years didn't have the brake cable running under the top tube or the fully chromed stays and forks. 1982-1984 used Simplex dropouts. Neither the French or USA market catalogues show a Team Champion for 1985,. This is getting more perplexing.

T-Mar

I see what you mean and agree.

T-Mar

That brake cable housing fits into the trough so it's hidden but doesn't have to run inside the tube. It would also add some vertical stiffness to the tube.

JohnDThompson 

That's to fit the rear brake cable housing.

"S.C. FRANCE" on the shell indicates a French-thread shell.

jdawginsc 

I have those top tube grooves on what seems to be a mid-level gravel-xcross MBK frame (the badge for the 90s I think after Motobécane became MBK). I have never been able to place or find the frame since I got it.

El Chaba

A re-spray would also explain why the color is a little light in shade.

1simplexnut

ah ok thats interesting .
Will have a fossick about for mbk frame info
Thanks.

T-Mar

I don't think that the frame that the OP is questioning goes into the 1990s, let alone the late 1980s. It's obviously a higher grade frame by virtue of the Cinelli BB shell, Campagnolo dropouts, reinforcing tangs, etc. Yet it only has a single set of bottle bosses. Two bottles were de rigeur on high grade racing models, let alone team replicas, by the late 1980s.

I also just noticed that the frame has a Camapgnolo style front derailleur mount. The 1983 and 1984 Team Champion had the Simplex mount that looks like a bottle boss. None of the lower models had brazed-on front derailleur during this era, outside of the Profil, which required one due to the teardrop shaped set tube.

This frame was obviously built for Campagnolo components, which would seem to contradict the LaRedoute tie, as the team was only in existence form 1979 to 1985 and used either Huret or Simplex derailleur systems.

BTW, I made an error in an earlier post, stating that the 1984 version of the Team Champion was inexternally brazed, It was traditional lugged construction, like 1983. I advertently referred back to the next model down, Le Champion.

1simplexnut

Hi T-Mar ,
Thanks again for your thoughts and expertise !
I am pretty sure we can forgive your error

When did the Campagnolo style front hanger come into existence ?

Seems fairly certain that this frame is a repaint /redecal .
It is a nice frame but pretty confident it is not what it presents itself as .
I dont think the owner will be bothered either way .

Thanks all for your comments and input .

El Chaba

I have a “Team Champion” with a somewhat mysterious past. I cleaned it up and resprayed it as the existing paint was not worth saving and was pretty tatty. The chrome, etc. was of a high standard and still in very good shape. I did remove the number mount as what was left of it appeared to have been cut off with pliers. It was alleged to have been a team frame, but who knows? There were a few letters printed on the steering column when I stripped it, but I could not match anything up. In any event, I don’t believe that it was made by the same people that normally make the frames. While the bottom bracket, Columbus (metric) tubing and some other details were the same, the chrome pattern, lugs, and especially the dropout treatment was quite different. It is a very nice riding bike, and I have never experienced another bike whose ride was more “ruined” by clinchers. The ride is very light and nimble with tubulars, but it acts as if it is half asleep with clinchers…

T-Mar

The earliest literature in which it surfaces is the Olympic Catalogue, released in the autumn of 1982 for the 1983 model year. However, if you look at old pro race photos you'll see it on the 1982 team issue bicycles. It was common practice to test products with at least a season of pro racing before commercial release. So, depending on the exact nature of the frame, it should be no earlier than 1982-1983. . A 1983 model year would coincide with the apparent introduction of the cable housing trough. I would have expected Portacatena compatible dropouts but these look like they may have had some extra work done on them by the builder

T-Mar

Now, that looks like the Night Blue colour that the La Redoute frames used during 1981-1984. Based of the photos I've seen, the team issue bicycles in Night Blue only used the brake cable tunnels on the top of the top tube during 1981 and 1982. However, all the race photos that I've seen from those years show fully chromed fork blades and stays. Still, some riders were known to go outside the official source for their frames and even have favourite frames from their former team repainted, so sometimes the bicycles didn't perfectly match each other.

The rear dropout looks like Meral. I don't know much about the brand but I do know that when La Redoute ended their pro team sponsorship in 1985, the team got new title sponsorship from R.M.O. Motobecane also ended their deal at the same time, with the bicycle sponsorship being taken over by Meral. Consequently, several La Redoute-Motobecane riders also rode for R.M.O.-Meral. Is it possible that the previous owner got things a bit mixed up and that this is an RMO-Meral team issue bicycle ridden by an ex-La Redoute-Motobecame pro? I'm just thinking out loud. I'll check my old 1986 race photos, to see what I can find.

Hproduguidon

il ressemble beaucoup au
mien

Lattz

Allegedly original team bike for paint match, I think its way darker.
Motobecane La Redoute 1983 (velovintageagogo.com)

1simplexnut

Hello , That does look very similar ?
Could we see some pictures of the seat cluster detail and the dropouts ?

Cheers