French Frame-set Query
12-08-23, 07:07 AM
#1
Standard Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,272
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked 940 Times
in
490 Posts
French Frame-set Query
A guy I know owns this frame. I'm trying to identify it. Nervex legere #45 lugs and bb. Number on underside of bottom bracket 4140? Original color was a light metallic olive green. Someone tried to braze a hanger onto the drive-side dropout. Unusual fork crown, shift lever boss brazed far forward in contrast to other frames. It looks like there is a "74" on the n.d.s. of the seat cluster.
__________________
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.
Last edited by 1989Pre; 12-08-23 at 07:15 AM.
12-08-23, 08:09 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,270
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
if you have not done so already suggest to do Tonton
should generate a specific answer within a short time
-----
if you have not done so already suggest to do Tonton
should generate a specific answer within a short time
-----
Likes For juvela:
12-08-23, 08:10 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,820
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,328 Times
in
784 Posts
That's a Simplex shifter boss, looks as though it may have been cut off a band and then brazed on; and there's a lot of braze and filing on the left dropout...
Likes For oneclick:
12-08-23, 02:05 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,270
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
regarding shift lever boss placement -
there was a period in the early to mid-1950's when Cyclo of France, Freres Huret and Lucien Juy all had gear systems in production where there were two shift levers on the drive side
there were at least one or two of these where both levers were rather short which might be a reason to place the shift lever boss further forward on the down tube
here is an image of the Cyclo of France (Raimond) entry, courtesy of VB:
suspect frame's birthday to reside in the early-to-mid fifties time due to crown and other details so this would tend fit in
disclaimer: idle speculation on me part, no horse in race
---
has your friend discovered any marking on steerer?
---
frame just early enough that it may have been assembled into a cycle with a 4V block in which case rear spacing could have been ~115mm; plenty of time for it to have been reset to a greater dimension
---
have been assuming that "56" marking on shell a reference to size but it could also be a possible reference to date...
---
frame bits:
manufacturer full designation for lug pattern Ref. 45/159
pump pegs, may be NERVEX Ref. 845 (unable to be certain)
housing stops, NERVEX Ref. 871 / 871bis
seat stay bridge, NERVEX Ref. 500 serie
seat stay bridge reinforcements, NERVEX Ref. 820
chain stay bridge, NERVEX Ref. 500 serie, if straight & unflanged
crown: possible crown may be a variation or modification of NERVEX Pattern Ref. 6
my catalogue dated 1958, possible crown a stock NERVEX model which was discontinued by the time of catalogue printing
shell: there are four stock nozzle cuts for NERVEX shells, am unable to make a match from images provided
-----
regarding shift lever boss placement -
there was a period in the early to mid-1950's when Cyclo of France, Freres Huret and Lucien Juy all had gear systems in production where there were two shift levers on the drive side
there were at least one or two of these where both levers were rather short which might be a reason to place the shift lever boss further forward on the down tube
here is an image of the Cyclo of France (Raimond) entry, courtesy of VB:
suspect frame's birthday to reside in the early-to-mid fifties time due to crown and other details so this would tend fit in
disclaimer: idle speculation on me part, no horse in race
---
has your friend discovered any marking on steerer?
---
frame just early enough that it may have been assembled into a cycle with a 4V block in which case rear spacing could have been ~115mm; plenty of time for it to have been reset to a greater dimension
---
have been assuming that "56" marking on shell a reference to size but it could also be a possible reference to date...
---
frame bits:
manufacturer full designation for lug pattern Ref. 45/159
pump pegs, may be NERVEX Ref. 845 (unable to be certain)
housing stops, NERVEX Ref. 871 / 871bis
seat stay bridge, NERVEX Ref. 500 serie
seat stay bridge reinforcements, NERVEX Ref. 820
chain stay bridge, NERVEX Ref. 500 serie, if straight & unflanged
crown: possible crown may be a variation or modification of NERVEX Pattern Ref. 6
my catalogue dated 1958, possible crown a stock NERVEX model which was discontinued by the time of catalogue printing
shell: there are four stock nozzle cuts for NERVEX shells, am unable to make a match from images provided
-----
Last edited by juvela; 12-08-23 at 02:46 PM. Reason: addition
Likes For juvela:
12-08-23, 02:14 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,831 Times
in
1,997 Posts
All kinds of mischief and trauma inflicted on that frame.
rear brake bridge needs reshaping.
those poor abused dropouts.
the paint, the paint!
take that paint brush out of his hand.
everything imaged just gives no sense of the whole, geometry and such.
the two lever RH shifters usually had twin BB cable management on one side.
my guess a lever controlled front mech when new.
rear brake bridge needs reshaping.
those poor abused dropouts.
the paint, the paint!
take that paint brush out of his hand.
everything imaged just gives no sense of the whole, geometry and such.
the two lever RH shifters usually had twin BB cable management on one side.
my guess a lever controlled front mech when new.
Likes For repechage:
12-08-23, 10:41 PM
#6
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,584
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 1,063 Times
in
788 Posts
seen that distinctive fork crown before, but it was years ago and cannot recall anything re: the make/brand.
Juvlea has ID'd a lot of the details but still no brandname or maker name, so this is not any run-of-the-mill Frenchy
Juvlea has ID'd a lot of the details but still no brandname or maker name, so this is not any run-of-the-mill Frenchy
Likes For unworthy1:
12-16-23, 10:55 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,270
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
addendum on shift lever boss -
this mixte by the constructeur H. Rousset of Montpellier illustrates similar highly placed boss
in fairness, it is mounted to a lateral rather than a down tube
note how short are the levers for the cycles's Cyclo of France (Raimond) gear ensemble
[frame constructed of a Luxavia tubeset from VITUS]
perchance our Detective Chief Inspector MauriceMoss shall be able to shed some of his considerable light upon the matter of identification upon the occasion of his next stopover
------
addendum on shift lever boss -
this mixte by the constructeur H. Rousset of Montpellier illustrates similar highly placed boss
in fairness, it is mounted to a lateral rather than a down tube
note how short are the levers for the cycles's Cyclo of France (Raimond) gear ensemble
[frame constructed of a Luxavia tubeset from VITUS]
perchance our Detective Chief Inspector MauriceMoss shall be able to shed some of his considerable light upon the matter of identification upon the occasion of his next stopover
------
