Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Equipment/Product Review (1987) SHIMANO 600 EX (10K mi) / SUNTOUR Superbe Pro (5K mi)

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Equipment/Product Review (1987) SHIMANO 600 EX (10K mi) / SUNTOUR Superbe Pro (5K mi)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-21-21, 11:14 AM
  #1  
SpeedofLite 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SpeedofLite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central Florida, USA
Posts: 1,991

Bikes: Litespeed (9); Slingshot (9); Specialized (3); Kestrel (2); Cervelo (1); FELT (1); Trek (2)

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 436 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times in 999 Posts
Equipment/Product Review (1987) SHIMANO 600 EX (10K mi) / SUNTOUR Superbe Pro (5K mi)





__________________
WTB: Slingshot bicycle promotional documents (catalog, pamphlets, etc).
WTB: American Cycling May - Aug, Oct, Dec 1966.
WTB: Bicycle Guide issues 1984 (any); Jun 1987; Jul, Nov/Dec 1992; Apr 1994; 1996 -1998 (any)
WTB: Bike World issue Jun 1974.














SpeedofLite is offline  
Likes For SpeedofLite:
Old 02-21-21, 01:24 PM
  #2  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,194

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1565 Post(s)
Liked 1,296 Times in 866 Posts
Interesting that at 5000 miles they measured only 1/32" of chain stretch over 1 foot of chain, which is just 0.23% stretch or half-worn by modern standards.

Some of the early Uniglide and DID/Suntour chains wore rapidly, but later Shimano "UG Narrow" and apparently this group's Superbe chain were quite slow to wear.
dddd is offline  
Old 02-21-21, 01:46 PM
  #3  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times in 2,079 Posts
I like the shimano 600 group by and large but I am not a big fan of the 600EX long cage rear derailleur (RD 6207 GS). It works but not as well, IMO, as the later shimano MTB RDs. My Cannondale 1985 ST 400 came stock with a complete shimano 600 group. I found the shifting to be less precise than I liked. I kept the 600EX headset and brake calipers but swapped out pretty much everything else.


bikemig is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 10:10 AM
  #4  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,194

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1565 Post(s)
Liked 1,296 Times in 866 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig
I like the shimano 600 group by and large but I am not a big fan of the 600EX long cage rear derailleur (RD 6207 GS). It works but not as well, IMO, as the later shimano MTB RDs. My Cannondale 1985 ST 400 came stock with a complete shimano 600 group. I found the shifting to be less precise than I liked. I kept the 600EX headset and brake calipers but swapped out pretty much everything else.
Nice Cannondale(!), they had some really good colors back then (mine was the light metallic green).

The pre-SIS Shimano derailers would have really benefitted from having some kind of body angle adjustment, but there is no external means of adjusting either the B-pivot or cage-pivot springs on these derailers.

But just as when I couldn't get my Cyclone GT derailer to swing forward enough for responsive shifting on a 13-28t 6s freewheel (where I had already removed the B screw and had to remove further metal from it's stop lug), the Shimano derailers can have their spring tensions revised internally by drilling new spring-holes, or by grinding some metal off of the bent tab on the stop plate.
These are much like Simplex derailers, which do often have the cage pivot locknuts or alternate spring holes which allow for adjusting the dersiler angle to the freewheel size.
Shifting is radically improved with best adjustment, versus random combinations with factory pre-settings. It's one of those things (just like chainline) that can make or break a bike's ride character imo, so I will take the time to do it one way or the other.

Last edited by dddd; 02-22-21 at 10:19 AM.
dddd is offline  
Likes For dddd:
Old 02-22-21, 11:49 AM
  #5  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,614

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10964 Post(s)
Liked 7,490 Times in 4,189 Posts
$350 for 600 Ultegra level SIS indexed shifting group.
$700 for Superbe Pro level Accushift indexed shifting group.

Thats the takeaway for me. Quite surprising.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 04:29 PM
  #6  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,646

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,700 Times in 936 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
$350 for 600 Ultegra level SIS indexed shifting group.
$700 for Superbe Pro level Accushift indexed shifting group.

Thats the takeaway for me. Quite surprising.
Yes and no.

6200 stuff is not 6400 level stuff.

But, yes- that is a price gap. And SIS is just "better."
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 04:35 PM
  #7  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,614

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10964 Post(s)
Liked 7,490 Times in 4,189 Posts
Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
Yes and no.

6200 stuff is not 6400 level stuff.

But, yes- that is a price gap. And SIS is just "better."
Yeah, I mentioned Ultegra level since the article mentions 600 being elevated a level with the introduction of 105.
Regardless, you summed up what was the real surprise- the indexed group that just worked better overall cost half as much. At first glance, seeing those cost differences runs counter to so much of what I have read about how SunTour was the budget option that worked better and how SunTour wouldnt inflate prices to create scarcity or appeal.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 05:38 PM
  #8  
Ferrouscious 
Some Weirdo
 
Ferrouscious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 502

Bikes: '86 Schwinn Prelude, '91 Scott Sawtooth, '73 Raleigh "Grand 3"

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 92 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Yeah, I mentioned Ultegra level since the article mentions 600 being elevated a level with the introduction of 105.
Regardless, you summed up what was the real surprise- the indexed group that just worked better overall cost half as much. At first glance, seeing those cost differences runs counter to so much of what I have read about how SunTour was the budget option that worked better and how SunTour wouldnt inflate prices to create scarcity or appeal.
Superbe Pro was Suntour's top end groupset. It would be better to compare it to Dura Ace. Excellent fit and finish cost a lot.
__________________
Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot.
Ferrouscious is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 06:09 PM
  #9  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,614

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10964 Post(s)
Liked 7,490 Times in 4,189 Posts
Originally Posted by Ferrouscious
Superbe Pro was Suntour's top end groupset. It would be better to compare it to Dura Ace. Excellent fit and finish cost a lot.
Right, and I thought about typing this earlier but figured it'd get too wordy- this too is a surprise since they reviewed both for thousands of miles and found the lower level group(600) performs as well as and better than the higher level group.
600 was half the cost, had indexed shifting that worked better, and was the better reviewed components.

Again, taken as a whole it was a surprise. Thats aThat's my point was.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 06:16 PM
  #10  
Ferrouscious 
Some Weirdo
 
Ferrouscious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 502

Bikes: '86 Schwinn Prelude, '91 Scott Sawtooth, '73 Raleigh "Grand 3"

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 92 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Right, and I thought about typing this earlier but figured it'd get too wordy- this too is a surprise since they reviewed both for thousands of miles and found the lower level group(600) performs as well as and better than the higher level group.
600 was half the cost, had indexed shifting that worked better, and was the better reviewed components.

Again, taken as a whole it was a surprise. That's what my point was.
Yeah. I've always been a Suntour guy based on aesthetics and the pure logic and cleverness in their designs, but I can't longer deny that Shimano made an equally appealing product. My last point of defense would be that Superbe Pro was 2-3 years old at the time this review came out, while 600EX was less than a year into its cycle. Makes me want a mix of the two.
__________________
Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot.
Ferrouscious is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.