Jose Mandez

I have kind of been dabbling in the car-free lifestyle. No real ideology driving this choice, just kind of a personal challenge to go it one month without driving my car. II figure I'll probably always keep my car as backup transportation and as a means to go places with family/friends.

Anyhow, today will mark 4 weeks since I've last driven my car, and I'm starting to notice some of the challenges of living without a car in a rural area. The nearest grocery store to my house, for example, is 7.75 miles from where I live. I can 40lbs of groceries in my large panniers, which is a decent amount, but I still don't buy as much of the things that I would buy if I had a car which would offer more carrying space (esp. liquids which take up a lot of pannier space, like juices, milk, and sodas). Since I started commuting by bicycle, I actually find myself buying things like powdered milk, and frozen orange juice concentrate, which cut down on the weight and space of my grocery load.

The other option to shopping via a 15.5 mile round trip is to add about 4 miles to my 19 mile commute home by going out of my way to a grocery store in the city, which I sometimes do.

My question is, how many of you car-free people live in the city, and how many live out in the country? How far is the nearest grocery store? What challenges do you face in living car-free in a rural environment versus an urban environment (or vice-versa)? One of the biggest challenges for me is that "alone in the middle of nowhere" feeling; the nearest 24 hour restaurant is 14 miles from me, my nearest friends are 19 miles away. There are only 3 establishments within 5 miles, two local restaurants and a gas station. If I want to go out somewhere, and I don't want to spend 45 min-1 hr pedalling, there aren't a whole lot of options for me.

On the up-side, I really don't have to worry as much about pedestrians, stop signs/lights, crowded streets with no shoulders, cross traffic at every block, and other hazards that are common in the city. So I guess that, on the whole, rural commuting has its blessings.

AdamDZ

I am just car light and I live in NYC. I did notice than when shopping by bike I end up buying less, just the neccessities, which is not a bad thing at all. I could easily live without a car since everything I need is within a mile or less. Yes, traffic and pedestrians are more of a problem. I keep the car mainly for weekend getaways, during the week we hardly drive.

Lamabb

I feel your pain Jose, that's why I'm not 100% car free yet. I don't live in quite as rural an area as you, but I've got steep hills in every direction, there is no such thing as a long flat road here. but I'm trying and most of my trips are by bicycle.

sauerwald

I am urban (downtown San Jose), although I used to be in a much more rural situation, with the nearest grocery store ~5 miles away. What I tend to do (both now and before), is to do grocery shopping a little at a time. I stop by the grocery store on my way home from work and pick up a couple of things. Liquids are harder to carry than most things, but if you go frequently, you are carrying quarts rather than gallons. Another difficult thing is particularly bulky items like toilet paper. A trailer also helps a lot for carrying larger loads.

dcrowell

I'm still car-light, but I moved into town to be close to things in September. It's made a huge difference. Everything I could possibly want is within 5 miles or so. I commute by bike everyday now instead of 3 days a week.

That said, my old house was less than a mile from rural, deserted roads that were just wonderful to ride. Riding for fun is better in the country. Riding to get around works better in the city.

Roody

Jose, have you ever tried a trailer for your bike? Or even a long-tail bike or cargo bike?

Abneycat

Personally, very urban: living on the south side of downtown, and working on the northern side. Work is about 12 blocks away, riding is just done to get a little morning exercise and save a few minutes at that distance

There are 4 major grocery stores within 10 blocks, and almost all of my friends live within 25 blocks. I rarely need to make a long distance trip out of necessity, most are made as recreational ventures for fun. I quite often do take longer rides, but plan them around the river paths or other enjoyable routes. The farmers market is a pleasant ride down the separated bike path 80% of the way too

I'm young, unmarried, and very happy to be in a situation like this. The only downside is that i'd like to have a garden and a workshop - but am now considering getting a house in the area and just getting a tenant or room mate. Basically, the life is great, but it wouldn't work for everyone by any means.

The biggest challenge for myself has been the threat of rush hour traffic. There are some larger roads that I don't consider to be safe for a few hours of each weekday, so i'll often take alternate routes or stay out a bit late and have some fun until the commuter frenzy has died down. In particular, the ride home through downtown can be hectic. Other than that, I suppose the other downside is that the apartment wasn't very compatible with my old cargo bike (Xtracycle) and it had to go. On that point,

I highly recommend a front platform / basket if your bike has the geometry for it! A front platform works with whatever bags, can carry a large volume, and really helps if you buy things that prefer to stay upright! I bought a bike with a big front carrier and a front loading focused geometry, a Globe Live 2, and its almost as useful as my old Xtracycle was. Its barely any bigger than a normal bike, but with a rear carrier it will bring home 100lbs of things quite easily.

Back when I was traveling much longer distances out of necessity, I also had an electric bicycle. It made 30 kilometers feel like 5 kilometers. Very useful for when you just have somewhere to be, and would rather just be there than have a nice long ride. More fun than a car and much cheaper / easier to maintain, and with a good enough battery those ranges you have mentioned are wholly possible.

crazybikerchick

We live rurally on an island - we are about 2 km from the ferry terminal, its a 10-min ferry crossing, and then its about 20 km from there to the edge of the nearest town. After 3 months of car-free living here (and 10+ elsewhere) we caved and bought a car. We usually park it on the "mainland" (which is still technically an island), as passenger-only fares are much cheaper than bringing the car across.

Sometimes we get groceries by car and sometimes by bike. If we drive to get groceries we will bring a big backpack and then likely walk them the 20 minutes home from the ferry. When my husband was bike-commuting to town to work he would pick up smaller grocery runs a couple of times a week when he was already there.

When we were totally car-free I found the annoyance of the bike commute + ferry wait too long to buy ice cream. But there's a solution for every problem, so we bought an ice cream maker and homemade tastes so much better!

Its definitely much more challenging doing things car-free in rural vs urban - one of them is just will places deliver to you or not reasonably priced or not. And heavy stuff is easy in an urban area with a trailer if you have to pull it only a short distance, much less so for an hour ride each way.

wahoonc

Rural can be hard if you have to leave home for any reason, urban has the advantage of having more choices nearby. I currently live semi-rural, but my job office is 46 miles away and I ain't moving! Groceries used to be 7-9 miles away, but we got a new store 1.5 miles away a few years ago. We still own property in the the city and I have thought about moving back...

If I had my choices I would choose a small to medium sized town that has access to rail and bus travel. A town that is around 10-15k is about right IMHO you have most of the services you need within easy reach and the town is small enough to cover by bike in a reasonable time frame, it will also be large enough to have most of, if not all of the services you need as well as support a variety of occupations.

Aaron

Platy

I think we'll be seeing more people doing and making things at home instead of going out to buy. Especially where there's an inexpensive appliance like the ice cream maker to do the job. With the internet and youtube, anyone can learn to do anything now. One reason for doing stuff at home is cost, but it's also great for car free living.

In a rural area, it's definitely worthwhile to put in the effort to do & make things at home if it can save a trip into town.

One logical place to start is to do bike maintenance and repair at home. I'd imagine this would be necessary in order to be car free in a rural area.

Another easy place to start is to learn to cook the kinds of meals that you'd normally go out for. This year I've learned how to make decent sushi rolls and many kinds of chinese restaurant type foods. Some Indian dishes and pizza, too. The cost is less than half and if I dare say so the service here is way better, and no tipping too. If we go out to eat, it's only for a change of scenery.

Jose Mandez

Thought about it, but trailers tend to be expensive, and I was barely able to convince myself into spending $300 for the 4 nice panniers I just bought. . At this point, a trailer seems like it would make things more complex rather than more simple, because I'd have to worry about locking the trailer, carrying a spare tube for it, fix flats on it, etc. etc. I may eventually get one, but so far I've found that my large panniers carry a reasonable amount of groceries, as long as I cut down on liquids and other bulky items.

@abneycat, I actually have bought a front rack for my commuter (which, by the way, also doubles as my touring bike), but I was planning on waiting until I go on a tour or something to put it on; I figure it will mostly add unnecessary weight, since for most of my trips the rear rack is sufficient to carry what few things I need. Although, strictly speaking, I could probably carry 25 more pounds of groceries on a grocery trip if I added the front rack and used both front and rear panniers.

wahoonc

Country living isn't for everybody, you need to be pretty self sufficient...or have lots of money to pay someone for their knowledge I agree that we will be seeing a return to people learning how to do for themselves in the not to distant future.

I have always been a do it yourself type of person, probably out of necessity.

I find that the internet is awesome in figuring out how to do things you don't know or haven't figured out yet. I have just about always had a garden and a set of tools, the skill sets have increased over the years. Currently we are living on 40 acres and produce probably about 1/4-1/3 of our own food. We fix everything rather than purchase new...when we can. There isn't much I won't try to fix, but somethings just aren't worth the time, unfortunately most things built today aren't repairable, which is why I don't buy too many new things. My sewing machines are older Singer models one from around 1958 the other from the mid 1960, the are both all steel machines and are in no hurry to wear out after years of use, ditto most of the rest of the equipment around the home place, probably why I like my vintage Raleigh All Steel bicycles so much

Aaron

cooker

Car light and urban.

Jose Mandez

I think it's true that living in a rural area has made me more reliant in some ways. It wasn't until I spent one summer a few years ago living in Jerkwater, Kansas, 25 miles from the nearest bike shop, that I really started learning how to do real bicycle repairs (I'm talking stuff beyond just changing/patching a flat tube). And now that I once again live 20+ miles from the nearest bike shop (which is also nowhere near my regular routes to work/friends' houses) my sense of self-reliance vis a vis bicycle repair has continued to grow. This self-reliance is not without its fiscal benefits, since I've found that most LBSs charge more than I want to pay; this is probably just as much a reflection of my being a cheapskate as it is their being pricy.

Goupilandcie

I have spent years living rural, urban and sub-urban areas. I have found the best for me living car free is walk friendly sub-urban areas.

Rural car free for me was alot of ordering online, which is actually cheaper for some things like tp but general perishables much more difficult and usually lower quality less selection.

Urban was bad in a different way. Yes somethings were much closer distance wise but the selection and prices are usually bad. Also I have found alot of urban areas to be wastelands where there are not things like groceries for quite some distance.

Now I live in a walk friendly suburb and its quite easy. I eat a semi-raw diet and cook everything on my own that I eat cooked. To give you an idea in the summer I was bringing back about 100lbs of groceries a week for me and my wife (watermelon sales), with no real problem and not much effort. Store is about 1 mile away.

The thing I have learned over my various moves is that living in different areas is a choice and they have cost breaks and hidden costs. Like living rural would be cheaper for housing, but the fact that you need a car does increase the price, as well as the time spent to get to places. Urban is expensive and smaller, but you might not even need a bike if in the right location, and have nice features like zipcar. Its all about chosing whats right for you, for budget, value, time, and effort.

Steely Dan

i live in an extremely urban enviroment, smack dab in the heart of downtown chicago surrounded by one of the most retail-intensive environments on the north american continent. anything i could ever possibly need or desire is within very easy walking distance of my building. combined with chicago's public transit system, it would be very easy for me to live car-free and bike-free here. in fact i did live car-free and bike-free for a number of years. i got back into biking several years ago though because in many cases biking is faster than public transit and infinitely more fun. i still have no use for a car though. parking spots in my building are $250/month, and that just doesn't make any sense at all to me for something i would almost never use. on the rare occasion when i really need a car (emergencies, running late for an appointment, and so forth), i've got thousands of cabs at my disposal to get me somewhere quickly if need be.

FunkyStickman

I'm mostly rural, I live 3-4 miles past the edge of town. Closest grocery store is about 4 miles over a gravel road, or about 8 miles on paved roads. I haven't gotten to where I can do grocery runs on bike yet (I'm getting there!) but it will require planning. The local gas station carries milk, it's cheaper than wal-mart and only 1 mile away.

tsl

Urban.

I never thought about being car-free until after I moved here in '95 after spending my first 38 years in the 'burbs. Without making a conscious decision, I used the car less and less until four years later, I got rid of the thing completely.

During those years, and my first six years car-free, I walked and used the bus. It wasn't until five years ago I got a bike.

It really wasn't until I found this place that found there was a term for it (car-free) or that people thought it was anything special. For me, it was just getting rid of a hassle I didn't need. Sometimes here I still wonder why people make such a hoopla about it.

AdamDZ

You know what? I actually envy you. I'd love to live somewhere that is not entirely covered in asphalt and concrete Although, I understand why it's hard to get rid of the car in your situation. I'd probably keep a small 4x4 truck if I was living in a rural area.

I remember meeting people in Vermont (one of the least densely populated states) who lived several miles from anything and all the roads were hilly, many were just dirt roads and they get really cold and snowy Winters. Only the most hard core could live car-free there. Almost everyone had two trucks per family. Even the hippie types who moved from NYC

FunkyStickman

I lived in New Orleans for 10 years, and I hated it. Of course, that was before I got back into cycling. We left the "big city" because with 4 kids, I needed a house with a yard, and I couldn't afford anything in the city. I grew up out here, it's home to me.

Out here, most of the roads have no shoulders. The drivers are for the most part indifferent, but you get the occasional hostile. I will begin actively promoting cycling in the city this year... not sure how far that will go, but I'm ready to see it happen.

musikguy

I would think it would be easier to be car free in the city because of how compact everything is relative to everything else. But NOT having that is the appeal (for some) of living rural.
Maybe the best of both worlds? Live in the country and ride a horse close to town where you have a bike locked up. Then use the lock to lock up the horse to the nearest park bench or street sign. Then ride into town on the bike!
Hmmm, just crazy enough to work...

Jose Mandez

I think that just about the optimal distance from the city (cycling-wise) was my last place in Indiana, where I lived 5 miles from the nearest restaurants/strip mall complexes (on the outskirts of the city), 7 miles from the grocery store I frequented, and 9-10 miles from my college classes. From the very heart of the city, I could ride for a half an hour and be at my cozy rustic place in the country. Not too close, not too far away. I probably would live closer to the city now, except that its hard to find a place any closer to the city than I am that's not either too trashy or too urban.

bragi

My sister and her family live in rural Kentucky, and though it's a lovely area, I wouldn't dream of riding a bike there. The roads are narrow, full of turns, and have no shoulder. More importantly, people who live and drive there have pretty much no experience with bicyclists, and they tend to exceed speed limits as a matter of course. Especially during hours of darkness, this situation seems way too questionable for bike survival. I'll take my urban environment any day of the week, even though it's full of traffic, rain, and passive-aggressive, fake-liberal Prius drivers.

AdamDZ

Even in "bike friendly city" such a s New York, we get hostile behavior from drivers from time to time. I've seriously thinking about moving, I'm just afraid about finding a job.

Cyclepup

We live in a somewhat rural setting and haven't been car-free yet, but we did get to car-light for a good while. Our post office is 5-miles, supermarket is 9-miles, feed store (that carries our brand of dog food) is 14-miles, and any other shopping (like the mall or Costco) is 17 and 22 miles, respectively. We have a McDonald's and Burger King in town, though we rarely go to either. There are a handful of locally owned cafe's and restaurants, liquor stores and farmer's markets within 5-miles of us. The problem is, they're pricier with a smaller selection than the big stores.

The post office, supermarket and feed store were regular errands. DH used a homemade cargo trailer for the groceries and dog food. The trailer is able to hold 300 lbs, but the most we hauled at one time was 95 lbs of dog food and about 60 lbs of groceries. A ride to the feed store with a stop for lunch and groceries on the way back took an average of 4-hours and was a 29-mile round trip. On occasion we did buy frozen products and packed them in insulated bags or a soft-sided cooler. They survived the 45-minute ride home with minimal defrosting.

We haven't done this ride in months, since DH's elbows forced him off the bike. But, we hope to get back to it this year! Our goal (errand-wise) was to ride to Costco and back (44 miles round trip).

For me the biggest challenges are the roads themselves and the weather. We live in the high desert. The road we use to get into town is Hwy 138 (aka Death Highway) and posted speed limit is 55mph. Most of the roads we ride out here are posted at 50+ mph. There are narrow or no shoulders, so you have to listen for traffic coming behind you. It can be unnerving. Temperatures range from the 100'sF in summer to 30'sF in winter. We have winds that average 20mph and some days gust over 40+mph. That makes for hard and, sometimes, scary riding along these roads.

Thankfully, I have yet to encounter a hostile driver. Inattentive or unsure ones, definitely, but none have been deliberately hostile so far.