phughes

Larry, how is she going to add water to her tires if she need to, away from the house? The ride will be horrific as well. Liquids don't compress. So the only shock absorption would from the minimal tire flex. If there is enough water in the tire (I can't believe there is a reason for me to even type that.) the tire really won't flex much. You may as well run a wooden rim with no tire.

As for stopping a slow leak, I can see that, but if you got a nail in the tire, tell me what will happen.. That's right, the water will leak out.

You are going a long way to solve a problem that can be solves with a good set of tires, which she already has, a good quality tube, which she probably already has, an extra tube to carry, and a phone only flip phone.

I like you Larry, but this is ridiculous. It might be fun to play with, but most likely not. I cannot imagine just what it would feel like hopping off a curb. Since water doesn't compress readily, the shock transmitted through the tires all the way through the rims, fork and frame to you would be horrific. On top of that, the potential for rim or frame damage would be greater than the strange idea of actually filling the tire with... AIR.

None of this is truly an issue though. It is for dad's peace of mind, and there is nothing wrong with that.

squirtdad

water is not compressible in any measurable way. That would mean that there would be no pressure in the tires.... they would not support anything and would have no resistance to pinch flats for starters

and as to weight water is one gram per cubic centimeter or 1000 grams (2.2 lbs) per liter Air is .001225 grams per CC or 1.225 grams per liter.... compressed to 70 psi/5 bar that is ~6 grams

a 700x25 tube is about one liter so if you filled both tires with water you would get 1 kilogram/2.2 lbs of weight per wheel vs about 6 grams of weight per wheel

and remember that water is not compressable, which means if you fill a tube with water and hit a bump the tire will blow off as the tube can't contain the the pressure

this is not absurd it simply ignores physics basics and should not even be considered as an option

LarrySellerz

that’s an interesting question, I expect that the tire would fail at the same pressure regardless if it is air or water. If you mean how easy would it be to get to say 100 psi with water, probably trivially easy compared to gas. It takes very little energy/work to pressurize a fluid because its incompressible, this is the same reason as why people “pressure test” with water. If you’re standing next to a tank of water at 1,000 psi and it breaks, it will dribble out and splash you. If it’s air you would die.

the implication of this is that the tire might behave similarly at 100 psi and 10 psi. It would “ignore” a slow leak in a sense, like that guy in the thread I linked experienced.

I don’t know though, didn’t finish college, I’m sure someone reading this can hypothesize about what would happen and explain what’s going on better than me.

Troul 

non alcoholic dumpster vodka might be more betteriers...

smd4

People always seem to confuse Larry with Beng1–the real vodka dumpster diver— for some reason.

LarrySellerz

Ty for pointing this out lol.

Troul 

didn't want to leave them out of the topic.

veganbikes

I have ridden them as well and you feel every bump, every little bit of the road. I could agree on a 23mm Thickslick pumped to over 100 but those are not comfortable and I have ridden on those and a similar feeling but not a ride I would ever desire. With suspension they would feel a bit better and my main riding on them was aluminum hybrids but the company that was making them discontinued them within a couple years.

I do understand the reason of their existence but it is a technology from a bygone era.

Flat spots and deformations I guess.

smd4

Why is it so hard for you old guys to understand that some of us aren’t riding for comfort, but actually enjoy the feel of the road?

veganbikes

Oooh I am an old guy now sweet, I want a damn senior discount! I will also need a make up artist because I don't think I would pass for an old person. I will say I will not be dining at 4pm to early for dinner. Though have a cane I can shake at people could be handy...LOL

Ok go ahead and ride solid tires I won't stop you! If you want to be less comfortable and slower that is fine you can do that. I enjoy the road as well but I would rather glide over it then feel all the bumps and imperfections which also would slow me down. Plus with a wider tubed tire I will be less prone to flats running a slightly lower pressure. But again you do you.

Reynolds 

I wouldn't use tire liners - had bad experiences with Mr. Tuffys BITD. After some months of use, the liners' ends eroded the tubes and caused flats.

squirtdad

1) tannus tire won't give you a feel for the road,
2) my knees and birthday say i am old, my mind doesn't....could be fooling my self

3) Feel for the road is critical, but does not have to mean rough ride.....I get great feel with 32mm Rene herese tires, light butyl tubes or tubies IME good tires and light tubes at correct pressure for weight give best of all.

4) heavy tires and tubes can completely destroy a bikes ride to the point of taking joy out of it
Case in point, when I got my 84 team miyata it had some sort of 25mm bontrager tire, heavy, stiff sidewalls and super thick heavy duty tubes on good wheels (dura ace, double butted spokes, MA40 rims)....rode with no life at all.
same bike with 28mm gravel kings and conti race lite tubes is a superb ride and even better is putting a set of light wheels (sanshin hubs, double butted spokes, mavic gel330 rims and 25mm challenge tubies at 120 and the bikes just wants to go fast

I really think the OP can go so far to avoid punctures that the Joy de Cycle can be destroyed

bblair

Good tires and name-brand tubes. I have had terrible luck with store branded stuff.

If she rides a lot, I would advise teaching her how to fix a flat.

No cell phone? How old is she? That is probably a discussion for a different forum.

rollagain

You go ahead and try that, Larry, and let us know how it works out. Be sure to get video of the whole thing.

MikeDeason

I ended up With Marathon Plus Tour 700X40 ( I don't know the difference between the Plus Tour and the straight Marathon Plus except the Plus Tour comes in a 700x40 and the Plus does not) and Mr Tuffy liners. Feel confident she won't get stuck on the trail far from home with that setup.

Leisesturm

I guess you missed the part about tire liners causing flats. Not just from wearing a hole in a tube, that happens, but also by rolling up in a wad over time. Marathon Plus is plenty on its own. You are gilding the Lilly, and also giving Dad's the world over, a bad name.

MikeDeason

I read the part about them causing flats but guessing that's hardcore road bikers rolling at high speeds, not 11 yr old girls on their first adult bike. Lots of Amazon and other independent online reviews seem to favour the linings.

As far as giving Dad's the world over a bad name, at least she doesn't have a phone!

alcjphil

Pretty hard to roll at high speed with those marathons and the tire liners. The typical rider with that setup will not be fast. I would ditch the liners

phughes

I ran Tuffy liners in my tires on my old Ross Mt. Rainier for around ten years. No flats. No issues. That being said, I see no reason for them in this case. I used them in the 80s because I was riding off road and had flats on every ride due to hawthorns. After the liners, no flats. they worked well. On the road with the Marathons, no need.

Leisesturm

Well, I haven't had the best luck with them, but it wasn't me that brought that up in this thread. So at least one other person has had the same experiences. The reason I am using Marathon Pluses now is because I got frustrated with the Tuffy liners moving out of place in the tire and causing all sorts of mayhem.

Leisesturm

Actually, hard core road bikers rolling at high speeds do not use tire liners. More and more of them are running tubeless. Let's not even go there. It's average duffers rolling along at 10mph+ on Kenda Kwests and Schwalbe Big Apples that want a bit more flat resistance NOW that buy liners. They could, of course, chuck the (new) tires they have and put Marathon + on right away, but if you've just spent $500+ on a new bike you likely won't be thrilled with the idea of spending another $100 for a pair of Marathon Plus. Tire liners are that $20/pair stopgap that allows you to at least wear out the OEM tires.

But did you also miss the part where I said that a flat wasn't the only emergency that might stop a ride? I personally wouldn't have let my daughters ride 12mi without supervision. I let them have phones though. They (twins) just turned 30. You can't have it both ways. Leave a kid to it physically, but try to lock them down socially. Bad idea. Girls moreso than boys are very resourceful. Don't put a girl in the awkward position of diverging from age peers. Don't put a girl in the potentially disastrous position of having to ask a stranger for help. Consensus on BF is a rare and wonderful thing. I'm not shocked Larry Sellerz is the only one (besides you) who thinks keeping a vital communication link away from a vulnerable minor is a best practice. The rest of us are just hoping you don't have to find out the hard way that your paranoia is misplaced. You should be more worried about what can happen to an 11 year old riding a bicycle alone in ... wherever, in 2024, than what trouble she can get into with a stupid phone.

MikeDeason

Unless you have a Tween or early teen child, I don't think you can comprehend the power phones have over developing children. Even with strict conditions, blocking social media etc, the phone will take over their lives. I don't care how good a parent you think you are. I have seen it happen too many times to my friend's children and my children's friends.

I am far less concerned about the potential dangers of my 11 yr old venturing 12m from home than I am from her having a phone. Of course, our location plays a part in this security.

I will heed the advice about ditching the liners and just go with the Marathon Plus. I do not wish to suck all the joy out of recreational biking.

XxHaimBondxX

Just recently a kid was kidnapped riding inside a "safe" rural camp site. Getting your kid a cheap android phone with $10 data plan that you can track would solve most of your issues, including a puncture or any mechanical breakdown. You can lock these phones down so there isn't any social media available, strictly call or text.

MikeDeason

Text and talk. They still have text on wifi. They can still download offline apps via wifi. I’ve seen it. They will get sucked in at that age.


Perhaps a stealth air tag on the bike and insist she carry one on her person

XxHaimBondxX

They can't download anything without your permission and passcode. However, your daughter can just hand you the phone once she's home or something, your house your rules.