PeteHski

I don’t see any point in a CFR version of an endurance bike like this. It’s pretty hard to justify on their race bikes unless you are pro. But I suppose money no object, then why not?

SoSmellyAir

Heck, no. I would not trust handlebar with extensible tops: Mathieu van der Poel hamstrung by broken handlebars in Le Samyn finale | Cyclingnews.

Sy Reene

Good point. I probably put twice the stress on my handlebars than MvdP

asgelle

Such logic is irrefutable. https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...hat-you-think/

genejockey 

That's not Stack and Reach (BB - HT center vertically and horizontally, respectively). That's Stack+ and Reach+, which is BB - handlebar center, vertically and horizontally. The stem can be adjusted vertically, or replaced (though since it's integrated, with hidden cables, that's a huge pain), so Stack+ and Reach+ aren't fixed values. If you look at Stack and Reach, they're the same, old vs. new.

EDIT: The stem has 1.5 cm of adjustment. Presumably it comes with 1.5 cm of spacers, and you can remove 0.5cm, 1 cm, or 1.5 cm. That means Stack+ could range from 676 mm to 691 mm. Kinda stuck with the same Reach+, though.

Sy Reene

Understood. Who cares what the Stack and Reach are if the bike comes with a fixed stem length and angle which is integrated into the handlebar? A shipped as-is new Endurace has a good amount less Stack (as ridden) vs the prior model than everyone is saying. Tempest in a teapot?

Domane is interesting reference too. When they first came out with the really low Reach numbers vs. Stack, it sounded dubious. But then you read the component geometry and see that the original handlebars had 100mm of reach (when everyone else was doing 80)

SoSmellyAir

Yes, I had seen this (or a similar) article noting that VdP's Canyon handlebar did not break at the extensible portion but at the curve where the STI levers are clamped. But I am still unsure about this design. The flex of a contiguous hollow bar is well understood. Less so for an adjustable integrated cockpit. Maybe the extensible option is strengthened to the extent that it does not flex as much as a traditional hollow bar having the same cross-section, thereby concentrating the flexing stress on another part of the bar (e.g., where the lever clamps) and that's why it broke?

Sy Reene

Or, the spacers are additive to the 691mm, and so it's 691mm up to 706mm.. which then gets you back to the model that preceded it. Reach actually shortens, right, if you add spacers, as the bars move up toward height of the saddle and toward (since the HT angle angles inwards) the rider.

genejockey 

Based on my own 2020 Endurace CF 7, I'm pretty sure that 691 is the maximum. I'm running 1.5mm of spacer on it and Stack+ measures out to 690mm. That's with a 110mm stem Yeah, reach shortens as you raise the stem, and there's an online calculator for that, but I can't be arsed to find it.

In any case, I withdraw my objections to The New Hotness, and if I were made of money, much as I lust after the Ultimate CFR or the Aeroad CFR, I'd probably go with the Endurace CFR Di2, for that sweet, sweet Dura Ace kit. And it doesn't hurt that it's lighter, either.

TakingMyTime

Am I correct that the only difference between the "Aero" and Standard version are the wheels? I compared the 2 bikes and maybe I'm missing something? Am I paying an additional $1300 for the DT Swiss ERC 1400 wheels?

GhostRider62

Hardly. A bit more than 2 degrees less STA on my size will make a huge difference in how the bike feels......on your hands. I would have to run the numbers but one reason I did not buy the last Endurace was what an excessively aggressive forward position on the bike, it was much more aggressive than say a pinarello dogma f, not even a toss up, the Canyon was way, way more aggressive. Seems like they fixed it.

mstateglfr 

What frame size do you ride?

GhostRider62

61cm

Why?

PeteHski

What size frame was this? My size L Endurace certainly doesn’t have an aggressively forward position with the stock setback seatpost. STA is 73.5, same as pretty much every other bike I compared it with in my size. The new one is slacker at 72.1, but that seems more unusual to me.

mstateglfr 

I think some actual numbers from the actual company would help clarify things in this thread. This is for the new Endurace bike with internal top tube storage, to be clear.
I highlighted the 7 frame measurements that Canyon lists which are typically referenced when discussing how a bike feels.
A size 61 Cannondale SuperSix EVO is almost identical to the new Canyon Endurace CF SLX in XL size. Like .1 deg different tube angle, 5mm wheelbase difference, 2mm reach difference, 12mn stack difference. Those things can all easily be accounted for with basic fitting like sliding the saddle a smidge or removing a steerer spacer.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I really like the geometry of the Endurace that I would ride.
73.3deg HTA, 72.2deg STA, 415mm chainstay, 73mm bb drop, and stack and reach that would be very close to what I currently ride.

I dont know why, but the geometry for a CF SLX is slightly different than a CF. The CF SLX 8 and CF 8 have different top tube lengths, HTA, STA, standover, Stack+, and Reach+. The actual stack and reach measurements are apparently the same still.


Oh, and Canyon continues to not provide the fork offset so you cant figure out trail. Frustrating.

mstateglfr 

So it would have been a 73.5deg STA on the old Canyon Endurace in your size?
Dont look now, but a Dogma from a couple years ago in your size had a 73.4deg STA.

genejockey 

Because the CF is the old model. The new geometry is the CF SLX and the CFR are the new ones.

genejockey 

Slacker STA would be a problem for me. As it is, with the old 73.5 STA, my saddle is clamped at the back of the rails. Mine has a solid seatpost (not the fancy split one)with a fixed setback of 20mm, vs the split one's 25 or 13mm. That might make it hard for me to get the saddle in the right place. My Bianchi has a 72.5 STA, and I have to run a zero setback post.

GhostRider62

no. 72 degrees

The endurace now has a much longer effective top tube because the STA is shallower. This spec is important to me because my upper body is relatively longer than my legs and my arms are longer as well with a 1.05 Ape index. I knew exactly with stem/bar I needed but Canyon would not fit it nor would they take the $400 unit back as credit. There aer websites to allow you to dial your current fit into a new bike. I don't have link off hand

PeteHski

I see the Pinarello Dogma is one of those frames where the STA gets slacker in larger sizes. The smallest frame is 74.4 deg and the largest is 72. Canyon tend to retain the same STA across the size range. Previously 73.5 and now around 72.

PeteHski

I don’t see an SL version of the new Endurace. Only SLX and CFR. That really bumps up the price level. The SLX frame adds about £800 over the previous SL with the same component level.

Sy Reene

You mean there used to be 4 different frame levels? CF, SL, SLX and CFR? CF, SLX and CFR are still around. 4 frame levels sounds a bit overkill if that's what they used to have, and that's not including the still existing AL frameset, which would have made 5.

TakingMyTime

About 1 year ago I purchased a Endurace CF SL Ultegra Di2 with Powermeter for $4999. The new CF SLX Ultegra Di2 with Powermeter shows as $4199. That's $800 less than what I paid last year.

PeteHski

But this version has much cheaper alloy wheels. I was comparing like-for-like component spec to mine. I paid £4600 for my CF SL8 etap and the new equivalent (but with SLX frame) is now £5250. Same wheels and same groupset.

PeteHski

There was never previously a CFR Endurace. So they have bumped up all the carbon versions by one level. I never saw the value in the SLX version over the SL and I certainly wouldn’t pay literally twice the price of mine for the new CFR. At least the SLX is now available with second tier group sets to make the price more sensible, but still a big price bump from the previous SL with the same component spec. The new one is also fractionally heavier despite the SLX upgrade.

Not a big deal at all and still very competitive compared to other similar bikes.