noimagination

It depends on what you call a "good reason", I suppose.

The last bike I bought I intended to use for (a) riding for fun (which may, at times, include fantasizing that I'm "fast", in some sense of the word) and fitness; and (b) commuting to work. I don't race. There was a carbon frame version of the bike I ended up buying (the bike I bought has an aluminum frame). For my use, I could find no "good reason" to go with the carbon version. Any marginal benefit of the carbon frame in terms of weight and aerodynamic drag was not worth the extra cost. Also, I don't think the carbon frame had the "braze-ons" (they're no longer braze-ons, I suppose I should call them "attachment points"???) for fenders and rack. So, for this purchase, there was "good reason" to eschew the carbon frame bike and to go with the aluminum frame.

For someone racing Cat 5, would the weight/aero benefit of the carbon over the aluminum be measurable in the only terms that are meaningful in a race (i.e. placings)?
What about Cat 4? 3? Etc.
If riding the carbon would allow a citizen racer to place one place higher in a race, would that be a "good reason" to get the carbon frame? How about a youngster who is shooting for a pro career and, therefore, to whom placings mean more than just bragging rights and upgrade points?
Is buying a carbon frame because you prefer the feel (assuming there's a perceptible difference) a "good reason"?
Is buying a carbon frame because you like the "bling" value a "good reason"?

In BikeSnob's article, he assumes that the only "good reason" for buying a carbon frame is that you can benefit in a real way (e.g. winning a professional bicycle race) from riding the carbon frame as opposed to riding a different material. And, he asserts that carbon is less durable under "normal use", and therefore there is a financial disincentive for getting a carbon frame over and above the extra cost of a carbon fiber bike vs. an Al or steel bike. If you reject his premises, then of course his argument falls apart.

I've only ridden a carbon bike once (it was actually a Serotta Ottrot, so carbon tubes with Ti head tube/BB/seat cluster - as far as I remember), so I have no opinion of the "feel" of a carbon frame over other materials, all else being equal. I do enjoy riding a lighter bike more than a heavier bike, however, even if the feeling does not translate to a measurable difference in performance. (My new bike is about 2 lb lighter than my old one, and I can measure a difference in time over a distance, but it is a slight difference, and I have no way to control for other factors, for example pushing harder because I "feel" faster.)

For me, I can pretend to be Eddy Merckx just as well on a bike with an aluminum frame as on one with a carbon frame, so there's no "good reason" for me to get a carbon bike.

genejockey 

Arguably, none of us "needs" anything more than a 25 lb steel bike with Tiagra. As far as I'm concerned, "It's better than something cheaper, and I want it and can afford it" is "good reason" enough.

jadmt

I bought a Canyon Endurace CF8 this past July and have put about 4000 miles on it so far and I still think steel bikes look better and If I had to do it over I probably would have spent a little more and got a steel bike.

jadmt

amen....for some reason there is no like button on your post....otherwise I would have just hit like cause I am lazy

datlas 

I pushed it for you.

Maelochs

When I bought my Fuji I went with the Sportif, the Al version of the Gran Fondo ... the all-CF Gran Fondo looks great, and every honest review I have read (from actual owners, not sellers) has been very positive ... but I needed a bike which could handle touring loads if needed, and could handle the minor abuses of a work/utility bike, so the kind of compromised racks one can install on a CF frame not made for racks were not acceptable. I have a couple CF bikes .... but they don't have to carry loads, so CF is a great frame material for them.

Some people here seem to think some other people here fetishize certain frame materials (and some do admit they do ... ) but I am not one of them. Bikes are tools and toys, so buy the tool which does the job and the toy which is fun to play with.

ArgoMan

Sage advice. I just built my son a new ride up from a Fuji Roubaix frame. It's a hydro-formed alum frame with carbon stays and really nice carbon forks. I just couldn't believe how light an stiff it is. I got it for $100. It's in like-new condition. It's so light and nimble. My main bike is a really light steel-framed bike with steel forks and it just flies, and it soaks up the road. I'm sure that the high-end carbon bikes are great, but for everyday roadies, anything will do.

PeteHski

What you say is all true, but I just like the look of modern carbon bikes and wheels. The marginal gains are a bonus and I can live with the extra cost.

However, I do prefer the way carbon bars and seatposts soak up all the road buzz. I think those would be worthwhile genuine upgrades on any frame, especially for endurance riding.

TiHabanero

What I have found with carbon frames and forks is that they are limiting. Not much I can do to modify a carbon frame or fork to fit a different size hub OLD. I can remove the rear triangle on a lugged steel frame and change it to add tire clearance. Not something that can easily be done with carbon. I can change the rear drop out to horizontal on a steel frame, not so much with a carbon frame.

Yes, I have done all of the above with steel frames. To do the same with a carbon frame is major surgery and sometimes not possible. As I said, carbon frames are limiting.

Full disclosure, I have owned 3 carbon frames in the past and enjoyed them, but switched back to steel.

Atlas Shrugged

To say that this is not major surgery on a steel frame is fairly bizarre. Truly one of the strangest reasons to choose steel frames over carbon yet. Even though this dull and insanely repetitive thread is passing through again at least there is a new reasoning on the table. A follow-up question, though: if you had switched out your past carbon bikes, why not just switch out the steel ones? Between the material, labour and painting costs, it must have been cheaper.

Jughed

sorry, was just scanning and got stuck on the word ignorant… my bad.

tomato coupe

It was 61° here today. The linked article snapped me back to reality -- it's still winter.

rsbob 

My overly simplistic take on the conversation above comes down to this: A Pinto is a budget car that will get you from here to there at a low initial cost and that can be modified and is just fine. Then there are people with means that can afford Porsches, who buy the cars because they like the styling, the assumed performance, weight savings and prestige.
The Pinto drivers will never convince the Porsche drivers to switch and vice versa. If we were all rational people, we would all drive econo cars. Fortunately for some, there are other less rational but more appealing choices.

Camilo

I quit reading Outside magazine in the early 80s soon after it came out.

Camilo

How unique: a thread about the worth, value, performance of carbon fiber.

jon c. 

it does seem to be a topic that has heretofore escaped attention

SoSmellyAir

But since it rhymes with Viagra I must pony up for 105. Work hard, spend hard, pedal hard (but still quite slow).

Waiting for whoever to diss me about platinum cards (that I do not have).

TiHabanero

Atlas Shrugged, I do the work myself. Learned to braze back in high school and after many decades decided to build a frame made to fit me and with tubing and features to my liking. Ended up designing an building 5 of them! Rattle can paint is good enough as they are all working bikes. Costs are minimal, well below the cost of a replacement frame from any material.
As for replacing a rear triangle or drop outs, it is not difficult, at least it isn't for me. Working with carbon sheets is much more difficult from what minimum knowledge I have about the process.

eduskator

Yeah, it's probably the same original guy who still writes articles. Time to retire, buddy!

Steel Charlie

Now every time that I ride the old steel Masi I'm going to feel like I'm missing out.

Dang ! !

PeteHski

So steel is the way to go with home made bikes. Can't argue with that!

BTinNYC 

Just old-style clickbait. A bud used to write for Sports Afield and Stereo Review. At least once a year he'd get assigned to write a controversial story trashing an old favorite ______, to inflame reader's passions and gin up angry letters to the editor.
I'm glad Eben has a paying gig, he's a talented writer.

Bradleykd

I've ridden a lot of bikes of all the different materials. I feel I am rather subjective about it and have no preference.

Steel bike people say it is so smooth... idk. It's fine, I guess.
Ti bike people say it rides like steel with the weight of carbon... idk. It's still pretty heavy
Carbon bike people say it is super light and compliant... idk. Most of them are still pretty heavy.
Aluminum bike people say it is only a few grams heavier and they save thousands... idk. I don't find that much savings.

I've never sought out a specific material when purchasing a bike. I loved high end classics, so I rode steel, I liked the look of a bare frame, so I rode Ti, I bought an entry level bike when I first got into it, so I rode aluminum, and I found killer deals on frames and rode carbon.

I haven't ever noticed the nuances of difference in ride characteristics, mostly I have noticed geometry changes from race, endurance, classic, and new bikes. I have found that I like light wheels (high engagement hubs a must on MTB but not so critical on road) and I like Ultegra/Force level or above drivetrains - the shifting is noticeably smoother and quieter (to me). Unless you're building from frame up, you can't usually buy a comparable bike in aluminum or carbon. Aluminum bikes usually get low end heavy components and wheels and carbon bikes get the nicer stuff. Usually it's cheaper to buy a carbon bike complete vs an aluminum frame and build it yourself with the good stuff.

I don't care about frame material, but I do care about good components. Usually that puts me on carbon bikes.

indyfabz

Blast from the past.

seypat

I thought posting that was a bannable offense. See you in a week or two, maybe.