What model is this Raleigh?
10-02-23, 03:49 AM
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What model is this Raleigh?
I have been a pest here before, as I fixed up my old steel Raleigh. Now it is done, not a restoration just a full rebuild, and it rides like a dream. But I'd still love to know exactly which model it might be. It won't alter anything, just me being belatedly obsessive. It has a 1979 serial number, W I 9 0 0 0 2 3 7. Could be a Sprint, or a Competition, possibly. The main diagnostic I think is the pump lugs beneath the top tube, but none of the drawings I have looked at seem to show those. Grateful for any help you can offer.
My old Raleigh, with some wrecks fished out of the river.
Me and my old Raleigh.
My old Raleigh, with some wrecks fished out of the river.
Me and my old Raleigh.
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10-02-23, 06:47 AM
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Competition GS with a replacement fork
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10-02-23, 06:50 AM
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Light mount on the drive side of the fork points toward it being a UK market bike.
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10-02-23, 06:51 AM
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10-02-23, 06:51 AM
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The fork is a replacement, but I wonder. The pictures of the Competition GS I've seen have the pump on the seat tube.
Most of the pictures of Grand Prix that I have seen do not have toptube pump lugs, but occasionally they do. I think that may bell be the answer.
Most of the pictures of Grand Prix that I have seen do not have toptube pump lugs, but occasionally they do. I think that may bell be the answer.
Last edited by JeremyCherfas; 10-02-23 at 06:57 AM.
10-02-23, 06:56 AM
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10-02-23, 07:00 AM
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Yes, it has a claw, but that might be because of the stop being compatible with Huret and Simplex RDs. Also, a lower-end model would not have a Worksop Serial... the lowest on the food chain this would be is a Super Course. For me, the biggest "tell" would be the interior of the chain stays at the point where the rim crosses it. The Competition had rapid taper stays - which will not be crimped. Another plausible possibility would be a custom frame.
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10-02-23, 07:09 AM
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^ I am not aware of any Competition with stamped drop outs , especially a Comp. G.S. You are right about the Super Course , some have stamped drop outs. The Worksop serial number also includes the Super Grand Prix which was the low end of the Worksop bikes, my daughter has one but it has different features than this bike. They are still fairly nice bikes . This could be a European production that I am not familiar with.
10-02-23, 07:22 AM
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10-02-23, 07:24 AM
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I have to disagree. The Competition as built from inception in 1969 through the GS years does not ever appear to have had pump pegs underneath the top tube. While there are no clear pix of the lugs, in the second photo we can see the outline of the lower headlug where it meets the downtube. It appears to be longer/bulkier than the Nervex Professional (1969-72), Capella (1973), Prugnat 62a (1974-76) or Bocama Professional (1977-81) lugs used on those models. The rear brake cable housing stop is also not what turns up on Raleighs - it's the same as the front unit, but reversed, while Raleigh/Carlton used a front housing stop that encircled the housing with one ring and stopped it with another, using a simple single stop on the rear end leading to the actual brake. By the time of the GS models this was disposed off and cable clamps were used for a full length housing.
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10-02-23, 08:36 AM
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^ I am not aware of any Competition with stamped drop outs , especially a Comp. G.S. You are right about the Super Course , some have stamped drop outs. The Worksop serial number also includes the Super Grand Prix which was the low end of the Worksop bikes, my daughter has one but it has different features than this bike. They are still fairly nice bikes . This could be a European production that I am not familiar with.
edit - of course we are presuming this is a Raleigh, rather than a re-labelled Carlton. Another thought was a Super Tourer - which would explain pump pegs, but I'm seeing that wasn't made after 1978. Always possible this was a custom build, or a non-US market machine. Or.. someone added pump pegs. That said, I'm not seeing the under-tube stops on a 1978 Comp GS I have in-house.
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Last edited by USAZorro; 10-02-23 at 09:13 AM.
10-02-23, 10:48 AM
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Isn't it pretty safe to assume it's a "non-US market machine", being in Italy? Or at least to start from that assumption?
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10-02-23, 11:28 AM
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^ Exactly this, the higher end Raleigh models we are familiar with in the US from the sixties and seventies were imported by Raleigh Industries of America per their specifications. They were not found as Raleighs outside of North America, more likely as Carltons. The only thing that the OP's bike has in common with a North American model Competition is that it is black.
10-02-23, 11:41 AM
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The crankset is low end: stamped steel with aluminum arms. The seatpost is steel with a separate seat rail clamp. The brake levers are outfitted with what are probably the original safety levers. The shift levers are low-end plastic. On the other hand, the bike has what appear to be quick-release wheels with aluminum rims, and the dropouts look a little thicker than was usually the case for stamped versions. Still, I think I remember seeing (or building in the bike shop) bikes with similar dropouts that were meant for use with claw rear derailleurs in that era.
Serial number (and pump pegs) aside, some of the details point to its being an entry-level model, possibly from the time when they were about to replace their European entry-level models with Taiwan-built Rampar bikes.
Not that there's anything wrong with a late-'70's Raleigh-brand entry level bike. Maybe my overall favorite steel bike was a Bianchi Eco Pista track bike, built with Columbus Aelle plain-gauge high-tensile tubing. That was a great-riding bike.
Serial number (and pump pegs) aside, some of the details point to its being an entry-level model, possibly from the time when they were about to replace their European entry-level models with Taiwan-built Rampar bikes.
Not that there's anything wrong with a late-'70's Raleigh-brand entry level bike. Maybe my overall favorite steel bike was a Bianchi Eco Pista track bike, built with Columbus Aelle plain-gauge high-tensile tubing. That was a great-riding bike.
Last edited by Trakhak; 10-02-23 at 11:53 AM.
10-02-23, 01:03 PM
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Looks like a Grand Prix to me. Our San Jose, CA shop sold Raleighs and Rampars in the late-70's.
When the distributor discovered us selling Miyatas and Viscounts, they threatened to cut us off.
Because Miyatas sold at triple the rate and 20% less, we let go of those Raleigh brands.
Anyway, that's my vague recollection of what occurred. It created a new sales pitch when customers came in for Raleighs.
When the distributor discovered us selling Miyatas and Viscounts, they threatened to cut us off.
Because Miyatas sold at triple the rate and 20% less, we let go of those Raleigh brands.
Anyway, that's my vague recollection of what occurred. It created a new sales pitch when customers came in for Raleighs.
10-02-23, 01:45 PM
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Don't forget the Super Grand Prix. Looks like a contender. (without pump pegs but close)
Last edited by clubman; 10-02-23 at 01:58 PM.
10-02-23, 01:59 PM
#18
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Grand Prix and Super Grand Prix always had the brazed on stop for the rear brake cable. The OP's bike lacks that.
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10-02-23, 02:14 PM
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Is the seat post size known? Also, could we get a picture of the chainstays from above (near the tire) and the rear dropout on the drive side?
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10-02-23, 03:32 PM
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As others have said, what Raleigh produced for the European market was often quite different than bikes exported to the US. Unfortunately, I only see the US Raleigh catalog online for 1979. However, the 1979 Carlton catalogue is available: https://carltoncycles.uk/1979-catalogue-2/
The Cyclone GT 10 looks like a close match.
The Cyclone GT 10 looks like a close match.
Last edited by nlerner; 10-02-23 at 03:35 PM.
10-03-23, 01:26 AM
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OK, clearly I did not provide enough information to begin with. I bought the bicycle new, in the UK, in 1979 or 1980. I happen to live in Italy now. It is not a custom frame, I would remember that. And it is not a rebadged anything. I imagine it was an entry level or next tier up from there.
The seatpost is new, and at some point I had a (very poor, early) indexed shifter added. As far as I know, the rear brake stop is original. I will take a photograph of the chain stays and the rear dropouts (though I don't really want to remove the wheel) when I next take it out.
The seatpost is new, and at some point I had a (very poor, early) indexed shifter added. As far as I know, the rear brake stop is original. I will take a photograph of the chain stays and the rear dropouts (though I don't really want to remove the wheel) when I next take it out.
10-03-23, 12:55 PM
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OK, clearly I did not provide enough information to begin with. I bought the bicycle new, in the UK, in 1979 or 1980. I happen to live in Italy now. It is not a custom frame, I would remember that. And it is not a rebadged anything. I imagine it was an entry level or next tier up from there.
The seatpost is new, and at some point I had a (very poor, early) indexed shifter added. As far as I know, the rear brake stop is original. I will take a photograph of the chain stays and the rear dropouts (though I don't really want to remove the wheel) when I next take it out.
The seatpost is new, and at some point I had a (very poor, early) indexed shifter added. As far as I know, the rear brake stop is original. I will take a photograph of the chain stays and the rear dropouts (though I don't really want to remove the wheel) when I next take it out.
A. You're not a pest. I enjoy having to put my thinking cap on, and when I don't know an answer, I always learn something. I suspect others may say something similar.
B. No need to take the wheel off to get picture of the dropout or chainstays. Might be clearer to take those on the non-drive side.
C. If there's a number visible on the seatpost can you pass it on? I'm thinking it will be 26.x or 27.x
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10-03-23, 05:18 PM
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It's a Raleigh from the 70's. Anything goes. Whatever bits Nigel grabbed after a 3 pint Friday lunch went on the frame.
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10-04-23, 11:39 AM
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Dropout
Chainstay
Fropnt derailleur
Very worn decal on seat tube
Decal on down tube; so must be post 1978 and serial number is for 1979
10-04-23, 11:39 AM
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