Ear protection when pumping tires
#251
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In response to your actual question, it would be fascinating to measure the decibel level of such a blowout. The closest I could find on the internet was a car tire which apparently is about 88dB from 50 feet away. Instant hearing loss occurs at about 130dB and a tire blowout is definitely not a sustained sound, so you'd need to reach that to have a true need for hearing protection.
Anybody got a decibel meter and want to purposely wreck some tubes?
Anybody got a decibel meter and want to purposely wreck some tubes?
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#252
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You're postulating a "safety" factor over the recommended max of some size. If you don't really know what that factor is (if indeed it does exist), any time you exceed the spec, you are testing that.
Missed the point on the metal fatigue thing, I see. You were claiming "so far, so good". My point is you really don't know that because you may be accelerating metal fatigue or creating some that wouldn't otherwise occur. Your answer to that is other things can cause metal fatigue, I guess, and that's a profoundly stupid answer.
I'm pretty sure I don't want to be near your steam engine, btw. What you write about running that over spec has the "famous last words" ring to it.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/gene...im%20instantly.
Missed the point on the metal fatigue thing, I see. You were claiming "so far, so good". My point is you really don't know that because you may be accelerating metal fatigue or creating some that wouldn't otherwise occur. Your answer to that is other things can cause metal fatigue, I guess, and that's a profoundly stupid answer.
I'm pretty sure I don't want to be near your steam engine, btw. What you write about running that over spec has the "famous last words" ring to it.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/gene...im%20instantly.
#253
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As I said, it's about the safety factors the manufactures build into their products. In the case of locomotive boilers, they were routinely proof-tested to four times their MAWP. So in the case of our steam locomotive, the calculated bursting pressure would be about 760 PSI. We never even get CLOSE to that pressure.
Do you really think a rim manufacturer is going to actually put the fail pressure on its rim? Would the lawyers allow that? Or do you think it's more likely that a company like Mavic (whose rims I use, and which did not have a "max" pressure sticker on them when manufactured), would maybe make their rim's failure pressure a little higher than the max? Maybe even 2 times, if not more?
Do you really think a rim manufacturer is going to actually put the fail pressure on its rim? Would the lawyers allow that? Or do you think it's more likely that a company like Mavic (whose rims I use, and which did not have a "max" pressure sticker on them when manufactured), would maybe make their rim's failure pressure a little higher than the max? Maybe even 2 times, if not more?
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#255
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My point isn't about comparing the thickness of a bicycle rim to the thickness of a boiler (you'd be surprised how thin the metal is, relatively speaking), or about the relative pressures. Although that's all you guys seem able to focus on.
As I said, it's about the safety factors the manufactures build into their products. In the case of locomotive boilers, they were routinely proof-tested to four times their MAWP. So in the case of our steam locomotive, the calculated bursting pressure would be about 760 PSI. We never even get CLOSE to that pressure.
Do you really think a rim manufacturer is going to actually put the fail pressure on its rim? Would the lawyers allow that? Or do you think it's more likely that a company like Mavic (whose rims I use, and which did not have a "max" pressure sticker on them when manufactured), would maybe make their rim's failure pressure a little higher than the max? Maybe even 2 times, if not more?
As I said, it's about the safety factors the manufactures build into their products. In the case of locomotive boilers, they were routinely proof-tested to four times their MAWP. So in the case of our steam locomotive, the calculated bursting pressure would be about 760 PSI. We never even get CLOSE to that pressure.
Do you really think a rim manufacturer is going to actually put the fail pressure on its rim? Would the lawyers allow that? Or do you think it's more likely that a company like Mavic (whose rims I use, and which did not have a "max" pressure sticker on them when manufactured), would maybe make their rim's failure pressure a little higher than the max? Maybe even 2 times, if not more?
I think you're, at best, taking what you know about boilers and extrapolating to bicycle wheels when the two have virtually nothing to do with each other. The reason the margin for boilers is so high is because historically there were multiple instances of large numbers of people being killed or maimed by exploding boilers. Totally different industry, totally different practices.
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I would never overinflate my tires and then carry 300 lbs of groceries or weed or vodka or whatever else he's carrying. THAT is a fool's game.
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Most or all of use other riders for motivation - that guy 100 yards ahead, you speed up to try and catch him. But that's not racing, that's just motivating yourself. If you catch him and pass him, it proves nothing about the two of you. You can feel good about the extra effort you put in, but you didn't 'beat' him, you didn't 'win', anymore than an e-bike 'wins' when it passes you on a hill.
It's only a race if everyone agrees it's a race. I mean, for decades here we've made fun of riders who think they 'beat' some pro or other because they passed them one time when the pro might have been on a recovery ride.
It's only a race if everyone agrees it's a race. I mean, for decades here we've made fun of riders who think they 'beat' some pro or other because they passed them one time when the pro might have been on a recovery ride.
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Boilers don't explode from over-pressurization.
#259
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You're postulating a "safety" factor over the recommended max of some size. If you don't really know what that factor is (if indeed it does exist), any time you exceed the spec, you are testing that.
Missed the point on the metal fatigue thing, I see. You were claiming "so far, so good". My point is you really don't know that because you may be accelerating metal fatigue or creating some that wouldn't otherwise occur. Your answer to that is other things can cause metal fatigue, I guess, and that's a profoundly stupid answer.
I'm pretty sure I don't want to be near your steam engine, btw. What you write about running that over spec has the "famous last words" ring to it.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/gene...im%20instantly.
Missed the point on the metal fatigue thing, I see. You were claiming "so far, so good". My point is you really don't know that because you may be accelerating metal fatigue or creating some that wouldn't otherwise occur. Your answer to that is other things can cause metal fatigue, I guess, and that's a profoundly stupid answer.
I'm pretty sure I don't want to be near your steam engine, btw. What you write about running that over spec has the "famous last words" ring to it.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/gene...im%20instantly.
We rode on the Gettysburg Railroad a few months before they had a minor boiler explosion (firebox roof blowout without catapulting the boiler all the way to Carlisle.) Turns out the crew assumed the water glass was accurate and didn't check using other methods. Only one of the operators for the railroad REALLY knew what he was supposed to do, and he wasn't on that trip.
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#260
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Different metal, different purpose. Not built for maximum lightness. The era of the steam locomotive was a time when they overbuilt things, rather than running on the hairy edge of failure.
. I sincerely doubt he's checking the tire pressure after he puts the 300lbs on it.
. I sincerely doubt he's checking the tire pressure after he puts the 300lbs on it.
#261
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Compete against yourself. See how much faster you can go from 84 up to the top of Canada just past Jefferson - that's my favorite self test.
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#262
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Im bad at math, but I used to be good at math and my gut tells me that its a pretty simple calculation to see how much the pressure increases due to weight. Someone has done this for sure. its an interesting question, I doubt it changes more than 5 psi but I really have no idea.
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#263
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Different metal, different purpose. Not built for maximum lightness. The era of the steam locomotive was a time when they overbuilt things, rather than running on the hairy edge of failure.
No, but the point is YOU DON'T KNOW how much higher you can go. You know how high they're willing to guarantee it for, so assuming you know what the margin is, as I said, a fool's game. And in Larry's case, he's talking about exceeding the recommended max pressure for both the tire and the rim, when the tire is unloaded, and then putting another 300lbs on it. I sincerely doubt he's checking the tire pressure after he puts the 300lbs on it.
No, but the point is YOU DON'T KNOW how much higher you can go. You know how high they're willing to guarantee it for, so assuming you know what the margin is, as I said, a fool's game. And in Larry's case, he's talking about exceeding the recommended max pressure for both the tire and the rim, when the tire is unloaded, and then putting another 300lbs on it. I sincerely doubt he's checking the tire pressure after he puts the 300lbs on it.
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Dude. What do you think the "V" stands for.
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#265
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https://www.omnicalculator.com/physi...ce-attenuation
Would still be fascinating to try and test it with bicycle tires. I have blown a few improperly seated tubes in my life and don't recall any ringing in my ears afterward, but it would be fun to put actual numbers to it.
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Last edited by urbanknight; 07-07-22 at 11:30 AM.
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We rode on the Gettysburg Railroad a few months before they had a minor boiler explosion (firebox roof blowout without catapulting the boiler all the way to Carlisle.) Turns out the crew assumed the water glass was accurate and didn't check using other methods. Only one of the operators for the railroad REALLY knew what he was supposed to do, and he wasn't on that trip.
Last edited by smd4; 07-07-22 at 11:36 AM.
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I blew one tire when I worked in the shop. Can't remember if it was a road tire or a MTB tire. I suspect road. I don't recall ringing, but it was certainly one of the louder things I have ever heard.
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It certainly startles the !@#$ out of you, am I right?
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#271
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Yeah. The thing that I worry about with steam locomotives is that the guys who used to run them as a job, day in, day out, are all either dead or REAL old, and no matter how much you teach or train someone, unless they're doing it as a job, they're having to REMEMBER to do all the things, rather than doing them automatically.
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#272
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This calculator (remember decibels are not linear) suggests otherwise (108dB @ 5'). At 1' it comes to 122dB.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physi...ce-attenuation
Would still be fascinating to try and test it with bicycle tires. I have blown a few improperly seated tubes in my life and don't recall any ringing in my ears afterward, but it would be fun to put actual numbers to it.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physi...ce-attenuation
Would still be fascinating to try and test it with bicycle tires. I have blown a few improperly seated tubes in my life and don't recall any ringing in my ears afterward, but it would be fun to put actual numbers to it.
That calculator is cool, thanks!
Yup, I did forget dB isn't linear when I wrote my comment.
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Larry outdid himself with this thread. I’ve lost track of all the arguments but many of them aren’t even arguing with Larry at this point.
A+
A+
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