Divebrian

I understand on the Tour de France, other large races or Elite UCI competitions that everyone that wins is tested immediately. What I don't understand is lower level competitions, for example Masters Nationals. They told us in the riders meeting that they will only test you if you broke a UCI World Record....individual class winners or new US records weren't being tested. There was an RV on site all week that had big anti-doping signs around it, but to my knowledge, not a single test was administered as no new world records were set. I didn't think that any world records would be broken early in the season, on an outdoor track near sea level on a hot day, so no surprise there. Question is, who pays for the person to hang out all week and do nothing? I'm sure somebody didn't decide to buy an RV and drive around to national competitions to hang out and do nothing all week because they were independently wealthy and have nothing better to do. Did they not test because it was a Masters Nationals? Do they regularly test at Elite Nationals and Masters Worlds? Seems very cost ineffective to have a person hang out for an event to possibly administer a test or two.

Baby Puke

Weird. At Masters Nats I've attended winners were always tested, sometimes top three, I think? (Finished 2nd once, didn't get tested).

bobwysiwyg

Perhaps they view it as inexpensive intimidation.

Divebrian

I was under that impression as well....maybe not top three every time, but at least all 1st place finishers and randomly selected 2nd and 3rd place finishers.

carleton

You have to look at it from the rider's point of view.

Let's say you do have a great day and you ride a world record time...AT SEA LEVEL. AWESOME!!!! right??!!

But the UCI won't recognize your legit world record unless you had a drug test administered right after your event...but they didn't bother to send anyone out to the early season, outdoor, sea level track for cost reasons

You'd be very, VERY pissed.

There are stories about people setting masters world records and doping control was not available. It has happened.

I remember once seeing a US record that was faster than the World record...it was because of this. I can't recall what it was. But, I remember being confused by it until someone explained it to me (sorry to be vague).

gl98115

At Masters Track Nationals a couple years ago, the local organizers put out a call to borrow a RV for the duration of the event. I believe USA Cycling pays for USADA at their championship events. I know they did some tests at Masters Track Nats in 2016.

They tested at a local crit last weekend. Rumor has it that sometimes the random selections aren't that random.

Divebrian

I totally understand the part about the riders perspective. I was under the impression that all 1st place contestants were tested and was just questioning who pays for the person to be there and why not administer some test? Just a procedural question for someone that has more knowledge or experience at the Masters level than myself.

queerpunk

It's not a rumor. Amateur testing through USAC's RaceClean program is definitely targeted. There's a focus on accepting information, and to announcing that anti-doping will be at certain events - and seeing if certain people fail to show. And then testing based on information like that.

topflightpro

They tested at Masters Nats.

I saw a woman I know being escorted to testing after her race. I also think I saw a photo on FB of someone who was being tested. So, that's at least two tests I know of.

But yeah, the RV didn't look busy, and there were no random numbers posted, as there were at masters road nats last year.

Divebrian

Didn't know that about the two tested....I just heard them say in the riders meeting specifically that the testing was only being done to people that broke a UCI World Record. Then someone asked about setting a new US record and they reiterated that it was only for World records. She did say though, don't worry, if I want you, I will come find you.....

carleton

Maybe someone misspoke or you misheard.

I've seen people randomly selected and winners selected for doping control at Masters Track Nationals in the past and I can't imagine the policy being different now.

I believe the testing is somewhat pricey, maybe $750-$1,000.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I think the procedure is:

- If a rider is selected (for being a winner or randomly) the rider does not have to pay. Not sure who pays, but it's not the rider.
- If a rider sets a world record and they want to record to be accepted by UCI, they must pay for the test themselves. "Congrats! Your world record will cost you $750!" and if you choose not to pay, then your record isn't acklowledged by the UCI. But, USA Cycling will accept it as a National record because they do not require drug testing to accept records.


Will someone confirm or refute my understanding here?

topflightpro

I also should mention that I did stop by the RV to ask if they were posting random numbers anywhere. I was told they were only testing winners.

rensho3

I was tested at Master Track Natz. It seems like they focused on the winners of the 500 and Kilo, as the notifications were posted on the same board as the results, and I saw notices for those races on the two days I was at the track. (Note, the notices were posted after the race.) When I was tested, I asked who made the decision and was told that headquarters decided what events were tested, and it was whoever won that specific event. The process takes a while, and there was a line to get tested the day I went.


Perhaps you heard the speaker at the riders meeting incorrectly, or they misspoke. I was not at the riders meeting so I can't attest to what was or was not said. However, there was also a communique which stated that if you set a record, you had to have your bike measured and a drug test, which was your responsibility to make happen, and to go to a specific tent in the infield to get everything done. I suspect that, given the weather, there weren't any records set, although I could be wrong since I wasn't there for the whole week.

topflightpro

Rensho's description would line up with the two people I noted. Both won the TT.

Divebrian

I can assure you i did not mishear anything as a couple of other people asked questions about it and she reiterated it was testing for UCI World Records only. She also said that there would be a big jig on location, but it was only going to be used for UCI World Records as well. That doesn't mean all along that they didn't already have a few pre selected classes to test, but she did say no testing was going to be performed. Maybe it was just her way of putting people at ease or catching them off guard when it did come to testing. Didn't affect me either way as I knew a world record, national record or national championship were not going to be associated with my name.....at least not this year.

Is there a published list of all the substances they test for? I know they probably add to it all the time, but a few years ago someone tested positive for a banned substance that was commonly put in sports nutrition supplements bought in a GNC type store and they had no clue they were taking a banned substance.

Divebrian

Found the list under the WADA website......you need to be a pharmD just to read the list.

carleton

Yes. Unfortunately this happens.

What's more is that studies have shown that some supplements add unlabeled things to the mix to boost the results and get more positive chatter on message boards and reviews. Being busted for something like that isn't a problem for most supplement customers because they are simply in it to get fit or stronger or whatnot. But, it's a huge risk for athletes that are subject to WADA testing...including college or high school athletes.

This documentary on the subject will blow your mind: Supplements and Safety | FRONTLINE | PBS

I think every athlete should watch that video.

topflightpro

Even if they don't add something banned, there's always the chance of cross contamination if the manufacturing facility makes something banned.

Think of it like those warnings on some food that says it may contain peanuts, because they cannot guarantee there isn't cross contamination at manufacturing and some people are deathly allergic to peanuts.

nslckevin

This is directed at the thread in general and not at any one particular post.

I'm not 100% positive if this rule is road specific, but I know that when I broke the US 40km record for my age group in June getting tested was a requirement for making the record official. USADA was supposed to be there that day as Loyalton is a known fast course where records are set but they didn't show up. I had to meet the USADA rep on my way home at a Bass Pro shop in Rocklin. I went into the handicap stall with the chaperone so he could watch me do my business and then carried the container of urine out of the store to meet the DCO at her car in the parking lot where we did the paperwork and put the urine into the sealed containers for shipping to the lab.

Starting in Bend in 2011, I've been tested at every national road and TT championship that I've won except for the hill climb last year. In that case it conflicted with the Olympics and I believe that all of the DCO's were in Rio and nobody was left in Colorado Springs to do testing.

I haven't been to track nationals in a number of years, but my understanding from friends is that there has been a fair amount of testing at those events. They don't just show up to scare you. Same at track worlds. They get tested there also.

In all of my previous tests USA Cycling I believe paid for the testing. In Aguascalientes last week though for our record attempts we were on the hook for the cost of the test if you broke a record. I haven't received the bill yet, but my understanding is that it will be in the $400-$450 range per test.

Regarding banned substances in supplements that people didn't realize were banned or weren't listed, etc. That is on the individual rider. If somebody is going to race at a high enough level to where they might get tested, they need to do their homework to make sure that they are okay.

Before I went to Mexico I remembered hearing about people getting popped for clenbuterol in large numbers at events in Mexico. Some quick searching lead me to a WADA warning about meat in Mexico and China. Both countries use clenbuterol in their livestock and it has caused positive tests. In my case I choose not to eat any meat in Mexico except the packaged chicken that I brought with me because I didn't want to be "that guy". I also took the time to look up any medicine I got leading up to that week in Global DRO to make sure it wasn't banned.

Also, the night before Loyalton a friend of mine decided not to compete. He had some nasty poison oak and was give a prescription for Prednisone. Prednisone is banned in competition but not out of competition. He hadn't taken it in a few days and we looked up the half life of prednisone and figured he would probably be okay. But it was close enough that he didn't feel it was worth the risk and chose not to compete. Because he's smart and he pays attention to that kind of stuff, doesn't want to cheat and doesn't want to take the chance on ruining his reputation. He didn't have a chance at setting a record but there was always that .001% chance that USADA would have actually been on site and decided to do some random tests while they were there along with the same percent chance that there was still a trace of prednisone in his system. BTW, based on the Bobby Lea ruling, even if this person would have raced, been tested and still had a trace in his system it would likely get arbitrated as by definition he wasn't taking it "in competition". But who wants to be "that guy"?

The information is all out there and easy to find. There is really no excuse for getting popped for "unintentional doping". I know it happens and I know that some of those people who get popped were not trying to cheat. But a smart, reasonably conscientious person can avoid that possibility pretty easily.

carleton

Thanks for the detailed first-hand info and stories, @nslckevin!

carleton

Undeclared ingredients are out there. This article is from 2 days ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...fda-discovery/