coffeecherrypie

I have an old Atala frame that needs a new headset. It's not a particularly nice frame, heavy tubing and stamped dropouts and cottered cranks, nonetheless I wouldn't mind getting it rolling again. Does anyone know offhand if I would likely need to get some kind of unusual headset, or if your basic 1 inch threaded headset available today would work? I may try just replacing the balls and seeing what happens, too. Thanks!

daverup 

I think taking it apart and thoroughly cleaning the cups and races will tell you if it needs replacement or not. If they are in good shape and not rusted or pitted, new ball bearings and grease should take care of it.
Good luck

iab

It will likely need Italian threads, but ISO threads should work too. Stack height could be an issue, but again, everything looks pretty standard.

evwxxx

If the bearings in the headset are in retainers, and you find the bearing races “dimpled” from wear, replace with loose balls. Doing this, you can usually get a couple more balls in the cup and race which will even out the roughness, at least for a few years!

juvela

-----

+1

cycle appears mid-1960's

if curious regarding a specific date it should be marked in serial

first two digits indicate year of manufacture

serial stamped on the side of seat tube about 5cm below seat lug




frame:

frame constructed with Agrati lug pattern "SPORT" Nr. 000.8050/E/U

fork crown Agrati "AMERICA" pattern Nr. 000.8528

dropouts Agrati Nr. 000.8002

fork ends Agrati Nr. 000.8010

fittings -

3TTT Tourist stem & bar set

Weinmann centrepull brakes

chainset and pedals may be a replacement

hubs Gnutti large flange QR

rims likely to be Maccari

brake cable clips REG (Rampinelli)

model of cycle appears to have been the Gran Prix

here is the catalogue page for the 1971 Gran Prix (closest year found)



manufactured by Cesare Rizzato

-----

coffeecherrypie

Interesting, indeed the bars and stem are 3TTT. I'll check for serial number later. Thanks!

And thanks to everyone who replied. I'll how checking out the races goes. Good to hear the headset shouldn't be hard to replace.

SurferRosa

Many old headsets "feel" like they need to be replaced before you overhaul the damn thing.

juvela

-----

headset -

as mentioned above, usually a cleaning and replacement of balls will get things moving evenly

the failure order in cup & cone bearing assemblies is ball, cone, cup

your set looks like it will have loose balls rather than retainers and take 26 or 27 5/32" balls per stack

if there is a slight amount of brinelling (dimpling of bearing races) its effect can be somewhat reduced by removing one of the races and remounting it after turning it very slightly

should you determine a replacement required it would be OK to fit a BSC ("english") dimension set which is easier to locate; the difference between Italian and BSC is only five degrees of pitch

if you are to fit a replacement one parameter to be aware of is the concept of "stack height"; the is the amount of steerer height the assembly takes up when mounted. your set has a stack height of between 34 and 38 mms. so you would not want a set with a greater stack height so as to preserve full engagement of the locknut's threads.

one variable not as yet discussed which can affect headset operation is the possible deformation of the fork. from what can be seen in images provided yours appears to be undamaged so should be fine.

this diagram may be of help -




[your set will have no seals]

-----

JohnDThompson 

Looks like an Atala "Gran Prix." These used a Magistroni headset. Unless the parts are worn to the point of needing replacement, just clean it up and repack with fresh grease and balls. If it does need replacement, any ISO thread headset with similar or lower stack height should work.

juvela

-----

fabrication of Magistroni marked products ceased in 1965

cycle appears slightly later

of course Rizzato could have been using up existing stock


-----

Bianchigirll 

"You can't tell what in the pickle barrel until you get the lid off" Foghorn Leghorn, I think

I agree with everyone else you need to take it apart and see what's happening inside first. I don't know if it's been mentioned along with putting an extra ball in without the retainers, if the crown race and lower cup are dimpled you can rotate them so they are 180 degrees opposite each other. If it's a spare spare bike for your spare bike or a loaner it doesn't need to be concours perfect condition.

coffeecherrypie

Thanks for the help, all. Turns out I had an unused Tange headset lying around, that luckily had a 27.0mm crown race. I was able to get the old one off and the new one on without too much difficulty. It will be nice to get this rolling again, with 700c wheels it will clear some *really* big tires.

Bad Lag

Is that a split in the top tube? Look about 2/3 the way from the lug to the brake cable clip. There is a longitudinal feature that looks like a split in the tubing but could be just a split in the paint.

juvela

-----

there is a short deep scratch of about one cm in length

doubt a split


-----

markk900

Out of curiosity, would you mind a few detailed photos of the headset you removed (cleaned up a bit)…. Would like to know if it was a Magistroni or not and just to get an idea of what they were using whatever the brand BITD.

Bad Lag

That top tube looks to be in bad shape - massively long dent, gouges, and that "feature" which is either a deep scratch or a crack or... ?

coffeecherrypie

The top tube is indeed in bad shape, borderline unrideable, except that it's very very thick tubing so I think it's OK. The split highlighted above is just a paint issue.

juvela

-----

thank you for this update!

IIRC the tubeset employed on this model is something such as Z50 or Zeta

it is a hi-tensile seamed set of thinner wall than the proverbial "gas pipe"

would guess there is plenty of "meat" there for it to hold together for the stated objective in first post


-----

Rabid Koala

I loved how Atala managed to chrome the lugs, rear triangle and fork tips on a relatively low line frame. On the other hand, it's Italian chrome so it didn't hold up.