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Hydraulic Vs mechanical brakes

Old 02-09-23, 02:23 PM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Again, as someone who has actually done maintenance on hydraulic disc brakes, the maintenance issue is what dissuaded me from using hydraulics.

The touchiness of the brakes didnít do much for me either. Hydraulics are the only brake I have ever had to really think about while using them. I never experienced the oft claimed ďsuperior modulationĒ of hydraulics. ďModulationĒ to me means being able to apply a little bit of brake or a lot and everything in between. Hydraulics have always been an on/off affair for me.
Okay. Iím my not trying change anyoneís mind.
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Old 02-09-23, 02:25 PM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by smd4
It's EXACTLY what some people are saying.
Youíre still not getting it. Intentionally, I suspect at this point.
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Old 02-09-23, 02:34 PM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Youíre still not getting it. Intentionally, I suspect at this point.
Oh...I definitely "get it."
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Old 02-09-23, 05:22 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I don't see it as derision. I'm not that sensitive. Saying something is ugly or inelegant is in no way expressing ridicule or contempt. It's an OPINION. Something only people on the right team are allowed to have.
Originally Posted by smd4
We canít all like everything. My opinion is that modern black plastic bikes with hidden cables and disc brakes and underinflated semi-mountain bike tires are butt-ugly, and I would never, ever own one.
Tell me your ďopinionĒ is not derisory or expressing ridicule here. It just makes you look foolish and insecure. You donít have to try to justify your C&V preference by deriding modern bikes and equipment. Itís pathetic.
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Old 02-09-23, 05:41 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
We canít all like everything. My opinion is that modern black plastic bikes with hidden cables and disc brakes and underinflated semi-mountain bike tires are butt-ugly, and I would never, ever own one.


Well all this silliness makes sense now. What we are talking about is Imprinting. Trying to debate logic or reason on any modern cycling technology is a waste of time in your case. ď
In psychology and ethology, imprinting is any kind of phase-sensitive learning (learning occurring at a particular age or a particular life stage) that is rapid and apparently independent of the consequences of behaviour. It was first used to describe situations in which an animal or person learns the characteristics of some stimulus, which is therefore said to be "imprinted" onto the subject. Imprinting is hypothesized to have a critical period

Obviously you form a bond with bikes of the 70ís and early 80ís and canít see yourself riding anything else, thatís great but trying to rationalize this through logic is where your case keeps falling apart.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 02-09-23 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 02-09-23, 05:42 PM
  #206  
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GCN rim vs disc test mirrors my experience.

I don't really care for the lack of modulation compared to rim brakes and do have to think when apply them especially when going fast on bumpy roads.

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Old 02-09-23, 08:27 PM
  #207  
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So, have we settled this? I mean, will disc brakes stop the bike? Will they? I mean will they? Will they stop a bicycle? Will they?
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Old 02-09-23, 08:44 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
We canít all like everything. My opinion is that modern black plastic bikes with hidden cables and disc brakes and underinflated semi-mountain bike tires are butt-ugly, and I would never, ever own one.


Well all this silliness makes sense now. What we are talking about is Imprinting. Trying to debate logic or reason on any modern cycling technology is a waste of time in your case. ď
In psychology and ethology, imprinting is any kind of phase-sensitive learning (learning occurring at a particular age or a particular life stage) that is rapid and apparently independent of the consequences of behaviour. It was first used to describe situations in which an animal or person learns the characteristics of some stimulus, which is therefore said to be "imprinted" onto the subject. Imprinting is hypothesized to have a critical period

Obviously you form a bond with bikes of the 70ís and early 80ís and canít see yourself riding anything else, thatís great but trying to rationalize this through logic is where your case keeps falling apart.
Thanks for the (free) psychoanalysis, Sigmund.

Last edited by smd4; 02-09-23 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 02-09-23, 08:53 PM
  #209  
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Disc brakes will stop the bike .... but they will also cut the limbs off of every member of the peloton.

Proven Fact (by BF standards.)
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Old 02-09-23, 08:58 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
GCN rim vs disc test mirrors my experience.

I don't really care for the lack of modulation compared to rim brakes and do have to think when apply them especially when going fast on bumpy roads.
Comments like this continue to puzzle me. It doesnít match with my disc brake experience at all. Both of my disc-brake equipped bikes are primarily ridden in the dirt, and very regularly on terrain where modulation control is critical for my safety. There is definitely a different lever feel between my rim brake bikes and disc brake bikes, but no lack of modulation control with disc brakes. Does this vary from different manufacturers? Both of my disc brake bikes use Shimano brakes (XTR, Ultegra).
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Old 02-09-23, 09:01 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Comments like this continue to puzzle me. It doesnít match with my disc brake experience at all.
He must be wrong.
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Old 02-09-23, 09:02 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Disc brakes will stop the bike .... but they will also cut the limbs off of every member of the peloton.

Proven Fact (by BF standards.)
The wounds will be cauterized because discs are always blazing hot. Itís a feature.
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Old 02-09-23, 09:08 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by smd4
He must be wrong.
I didnít say heís wrong. I said my own experience has been different. Is it in the equipment, or in the user? I donít know, and Iím curious why that would be.
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Old 02-09-23, 09:21 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
I didnít say heís wrong.
You didnít have to.
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Old 02-09-23, 09:37 PM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by smd4
You didnít have to.
It says a lot that you can only see it that way.

Iím genuinely curious about why GR62ís experience is different than mine, and what factors might be contributing to that difference.
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Old 02-10-23, 12:48 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Comments like this continue to puzzle me. It doesnít match with my disc brake experience at all. Both of my disc-brake equipped bikes are primarily ridden in the dirt, and very regularly on terrain where modulation control is critical for my safety. There is definitely a different lever feel between my rim brake bikes and disc brake bikes, but no lack of modulation control with disc brakes. Does this vary from different manufacturers? Both of my disc brake bikes use Shimano brakes (XTR, Ultegra).
I think a large majority of cyclists that have used hydraulic disc brakes will say they have really good modulation.
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Old 02-10-23, 05:24 AM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I think a large majority of cyclists that have used hydraulic disc brakes will say they have really good modulation.
Seems to be the case on most bike forums I frequent .... and I have never heard a cyclsit using hydro discs say otherwise. I have heard cyclists say that once they went hydro disc they would never go back because they were so much better ..... but I didn't say that. I think for most ride-riding situations, "brakes" (whichever of the various modern systems,) works fine.

No denying hydro discs clamp a lot harder and can be controlled with less and finer amount of energy.

I suspect the GCN guys were grabbing big handfuls of brake as if they were cable rim brakes, when one finger might have been enough.

There is a reason most MTB brake levers are only a couple inches long.
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Old 02-10-23, 05:47 AM
  #218  
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Do hydros have adjustable levers? With a cable actuated something, you have some degree of adjustability built in.
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Old 02-10-23, 05:50 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Comments like this continue to puzzle me. It doesnít match with my disc brake experience at all. Both of my disc-brake equipped bikes are primarily ridden in the dirt, and very regularly on terrain where modulation control is critical for my safety. There is definitely a different lever feel between my rim brake bikes and disc brake bikes, but no lack of modulation control with disc brakes. Does this vary from different manufacturers? Both of my disc brake bikes use Shimano brakes (XTR, Ultegra).
Come ride my bike?

SRAM AXS Red HRD brakes.

The initial grab is very high compared to rim brakes. Let's say you want to feather the brakes going into a bumpy corner, it takes some thought and care meaning very little lever movement results in a lot of braking force compared to rim brakes. The difference is very apparent to me. On a positive note, did you watch the video? From a performance perspective, I would guess my descent times on Stelvio would be vastly improved (in theory).
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Old 02-10-23, 05:52 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Do hydros have adjustable levers? With a cable actuated something, you have some degree of adjustability built in.
Excellent question.
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Old 02-10-23, 05:57 AM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Comments like this continue to puzzle me. It doesnít match with my disc brake experience at all. Both of my disc-brake equipped bikes are primarily ridden in the dirt, and very regularly on terrain where modulation control is critical for my safety. There is definitely a different lever feel between my rim brake bikes and disc brake bikes, but no lack of modulation control with disc brakes. Does this vary from different manufacturers? Both of my disc brake bikes use Shimano brakes (XTR, Ultegra).
In my experience, disc brakes generally give me better control, especially on loose surfaces.

It does vary from one model to another, but in my experience, every disc Iíve owned (BB7, XT, SLX, Magura MT7, and some older Hayes and Juicies) has been at least equal to rim brakes in this regardÖ. Most are better. The MT7s are sublime. Whenever I go back to any of the other brakes, I notice how much more of my brain is dealing with braking.
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Old 02-10-23, 06:02 AM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
GCN rim vs disc test mirrors my experience.

I don't really care for the lack of modulation compared to rim brakes and do have to think when apply them especially when going fast on bumpy roads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIwVbaLMezw
So a very clear result in the video. No question hydraulic disc brakes have better performance on technical alpine descents and even more so if it's wet. The only slight surprise to me in that video was the significantly shorter stopping distance on the disc brakes in both dry and wet conditions - which strongly implies that rim brakes are actually power limited at high speed (he was stopping from 53 kph) and not capable of reaching the limit of tyre grip at those speeds even in the wet. Thinking back to my own fading experience of wet braking on fast descents I do recall rim brakes feeling woefully under-powered and slow to respond.

As there is no mention of lack of modulation in the video, I presume that comment was from your personal experience. Maybe your brakes have some issue (bleeding, pad contamination?), since accurate and consistent modulation is one of the primary advantages of hydraulic brakes. I've been using hydraulic disc brakes since 2004 in mtb and since 2019 on road bikes. Modulation has always been a strong point. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I really haven't had any major issues with disc brakes over 19 years of use on many different bikes. Only my mtb brakes have required the odd bleed.
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Old 02-10-23, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Do hydros have adjustable levers? With a cable actuated something, you have some degree of adjustability built in.
I can only speak for MTB (and Road mech)Ö..

Mechanicals are adjustable at the lever in all the same ways as rim brakes. Not surprising since they use the same levers.

With hydro, all the ones Iíve owned had a reach adjustment. Some also have a free-stroke adjustment. What they do not have is a way to adjust the leverage ratio, like you find in Avid Speed Dial mechanical levers.
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Old 02-10-23, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Come ride my bike?

SRAM AXS Red HRD brakes.

The initial grab is very high compared to rim brakes. Let's say you want to feather the brakes going into a bumpy corner, it takes some thought and care meaning very little lever movement results in a lot of braking force compared to rim brakes. The difference is very apparent to me. On a positive note, did you watch the video? From a performance perspective, I would guess my descent times on Stelvio would be vastly improved (in theory).
I presume you know those particular brakes have a bite point adjuster under the hoods? If you are finding the initial bite too aggressive, try backing off on the adjuster. Note that there is also a second adjuster for lever position/reach - which is independent of bite point.
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Old 02-10-23, 06:09 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Do hydros have adjustable levers? With a cable actuated something, you have some degree of adjustability built in.
The higher-end ones do yes. My SRAM Force AXS levers have both lever reach and bite point adjustment.
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