chaadster

So, having scored a great deal on a set of new, take-off, American Classic Argent wheels from a Look 675, I've been able to log a couple of rides and about 100 miles on them so far. I know that's not much to formulate an opinion on, but I'm pretty stoked about these, so I'm putting my thoughts out there for now, and if things change, well I put that out there, too.

In order that you understand where I'm coming from in this review, note I weigh 215lbs.

First off, the wheels look pretty sharp. Lots of graphics, but contemporary and tasteful to my eye. The graphics continue onto the hubs, which is pretty stylie. Silver nipples, black spokes, with the exception of two silver painted spokes pointing to the valve stem on the radial laced front, and trio (rear lacing is 16ds, 8dnds for groups of three) of same on the rear. The rim is 22mm wide, but the bead width is an amazing 19.4mm, wider even than the Flo Wide Ride bead width, albeit by only .05mm. Still, this gives the wide rim tire profile and footprint, and mounted with these Hutchinson Atom Comp 23s, the tire and brake track width is virtually the same.

In the hand, the wheels spin easily and smoothly; the rear clicks away with a mutedly, softly, and engaging the freewheel drags down slowly. Hoisting them, the claimed 1372gm weight seems on target.

The Hutchinson Atoms I've got on them now are not tubeless; be aware the Atom Comp is a tubed tire (I was not aware!). It is an impressively light and fast tire at 190gm, but I've got some Schwalbe One tubeless on the way, because I really want to try tubeless, and the Ones came recommended to me by AmClassic as easier to work with than the Hutchinsons, which use an unforgiving carbon bead.

On the road, they feel great. They are lively and roll-on well, and seem to accelerate quickly. I've pumped the power into these sprinting uphill out of the saddle, and leaned 'em over pretty good in some turns, and they feel solid, on point, and responsive. Jumps are snappier, too. High speed (well, near 30mph!) sweepers get railed, and I even launched off a curb, flicked the bike parallel to the curb, and landed solidly with all that side loading. No pings or popping, so these came from AC built right.

I can notice a slightly more planted feel at the front going from standard width Ksyrium Elites, but it's not a radical difference. The sidewalls are not machined, apparently to retain max strength in the rim, and perhaps this is the reason I experience the front brake pulsation others have reported. They say the pads bed in, and in fact, the effect lessened for me already, too, so perhaps it'll go away all together soon.

What else? Oh, the muted clicking of the rear hub when coasting on the road is unnoticeable, so these are virtually silent. You can sneak up on someone pretty good on these!

I think that's it for now, and I'll do a Part 2 once I get those Schwalbe Ones mounted up tubeless and get some rides in. In sum, I'm very happy with these wheels at this point, and think they are great performers. I'd recommend them!

rpenmanparker 

Awesome. good looking. I especially like the hub gaphics. And you know I am a dyed-in-the-wool American Classic devotee. Been building the hubs up for years.

moppeddler

How much did you pay for them, and what's the rim depth?

vasuvius

I have those same wheels/tires on my Look 675. I love the wheels but not the tires. The tires don't make me feel confident on hard twisty downhills.
The wheels roll extremely well. At about 340 miles now, the breaks / breaking surface on the wheel are not yet bedded in well. Hope that will happen soon.
I had a pinch flat when I had about 100 miles on the bike/wheels/tires - tires were likely at around 80 psi - I didn't expect that at my 146 lbs weight.
I will probably replace the tires as soon as I can. These are definitely great wheels. Enjoy them.

dvdslw

Here's a link to AC's specs ARGENT|ROAD TUBELESS

dvdslw

Great looking wheels and bike! Looking forward to your review on the Tubeless One's!!!

chaadster

Oh man, I don't even wanna say....I still can't believe it! Shaun at The Cycling House hooked me up royally; give him a ring.

chaadster

Ah, interesting insight on the Atom Comp. We've only got short, open, rollers around here, so few opportunities to transition across the tire at speed. I did hit our one spot like that yesterday, a 30mph downhill into a 85° right into a sharp, steep left climb, and the seemed fine, but it's not like coming down a mountain. Anyway, I'll have the Ones on midweek, so the Hutchinsons are a moot point.

I'm curious if you were able to change that flat on the road? Tech support at AC really got me scared about how tight the bead is on the Hutchinsons.

I'd love to see a pic of your Look 675 Light; such an interesting bike!

surgeonstone

If you go slow enough that you can read the logos on the rim as the wheels are turning, then you don't deserve them.
I don't deserve them.

vasuvius

It was pretty easy to get the tire off with just my hands - no tire levers. Definitely need tubes with 48mm valve stems.

Shaun posted a pic of my bike on the Cycling House blog. Here it is. I'll take some more pics and post later

2014 Look 675 Light | THE CYCLING HOUSE BLOG

chaadster

Oh, thanks for the reminder.

Your Look is definitely cool. It's, like, from the future! Many happy miles to you!

chaadster

As promised, just a quick note on the Schwalbe One 23c/Argent combo...

Removing the Atom Comps was a snap, and using the soapy water trick, mounting up the Ones went easily enough, too, although it did take quite a bit of soaping and when the 100psi from the compressor didn't get it, I had to use the floor pump to get to max tire rating of 120psi to get them seated.

I used Stan's sealant, which loaded through the removable core AC valve stems very easily.

I've only done a couple of short rides, the first at that high 120psi, just to make sure they were seated properly. Amazingly, it was still pretty smooth and on point, though I was getting a good amount of chatter and hop in the rough. Magic happened on the second ride, when I dropped pressure to 90F/100R; man, did it feel super velvety but without any loss of responsiveness under power, as when sprinting out of the saddle or powering up a climb. The tires really feel squarely planted and very direct. Roll feels fast.

I didn't have the opportunity to put them through their paces, but I cranked them over in hard turns a couple of times and ran through a fast, 40mph sweeper, and they stayed reassuringly stuck, transitioned predictably, and held their line solidly over rough patches and manhole covers (yeah, I hit that one at +40mph! I rode the line a bit wider than usual, and didn't even realize that thing was over there! I was weighting the outside pedal and didn't feel even a hiccup from the tires).

I've got a training camp down in Bloomington, IN, at the end of the month, so if the Argent/One combo proves itself for the aggressive riding in that hilly terrain with it's steep climbs, I'm confident it'll be a great season of riding!

The Ones' low-key graphics are welcome on the busy Argents:

robbyville

Thanks for the update on the Schwalbe's. I've got them on my watch list for when they come in. Did you do the 23 or 25mm? I'm using Hutchinson Fusion's (23mm) on my tubeless and don't like them nearly as much as my previous Bontrager's which were 25's

chaadster

You're welcome! I do have the 23s on the bike, both because the rim width was aerodynamically optimized for 23s, and because I honestly don't know if my fork would clear 25s! As my first wide bead seat rim, I was surprised at how full they make the rubber seem, so I'm pretty satisfied with the width, but again, I scarcely have any miles on 'em. I'm waiting for my wife to get home so I can head out yet today...

I do have 25s on another bike, on Velocity Aeroheads, which I think are a 19mm wide rim, and I really don't like the sidewall flex on those, and I'd like avoid anything like that with the Argents. They're comfy, I suppose (the Velocity/Michelin Pro Optimum 25s), but definitely don't feel connected in the same way 23s do on that rim, let alone on the Argents.

TripleZ

I own a set of these and I will say that they are the worst set of wheels i have ever owned. I bought a pair of Hutchinson Fusion to use. The tires are so tight they compress the wheels and loosen the spokes. I called AC and they told me that they know about the problem with the Hutchinson tires. I told them a disclaimer on their website stating this would be nice. They said they do not want to say anything negative about other manufactures. I purchased a set of IRC tires which are much easier to install and the rims still come out of true and I lost a rim strip after three months and AC would not help me, they responded to an email and said I could buy them on their website. Poor quality, poor support.

RNAV

[thread drift]

Chaadster,

How do you like that Breezer? I'm getting a Uptown for my wife, but was thinking of picking up a steel road bike for myself. The Venturi looks pretty sharp.

[/thread drift]

Bob Dopolina 

You LOST the rim strips. Why should they just give you new ones? They are available on their website.

TripleZ

Bob, that was a poor choice of words on my part, the rim strip starting leaking and failed after three months

chaadster

I love it. It handles brilliantly. It's responsive, stable, and feels great. Really sporty. I also love the paint.

Bob Dopolina 

That's a legitimate beef. They should have taken care of that.

chaadster

TripleZ posting his misfortunes has reminded me that I should do a follow-up, now that I've got over 1k miles on this wheel set in its tubeless setup with the Schwalbe One tires.

The executive summary is that I'm very pleased with the wheels, verging on delighted, and there is only one issue holding me back from giving the more exalted rating.

First the good stuff. The wheels are reactive and stiff, and can handle my 215lb mass dishing out substantial wattage on steep climbs, sprint bursts, and sustained high tempo riding. I've broken the 60mph benchmark with them (Valley Mission Rd, at the south end of Lake Monroe, IN), and carved some fast turns without ever feeling uncertainty from the wheels. Or tires, for that matter, which have performed perfectly.

The hubs remain smooth and tight, and there has been no change in function or sound from the ratchet system. The rims have been holding pressure very well.

I can't really quantify the gains derived from the wheels, but they feel great under pedal, and jump up to speed nicely. They've remained true, and good looking, and honestly feel pretty fast. Their extremely wide bead seat width really puts the rubber on the road; I didn't put the calipers to 'em, but a friend of mine, who rides 28s, and I really thought that eyeballing the Ones on the Argents looks just a hair narrower than the 28s, like a 26 if there is such a thing, and definitely 25s at a minimum.

On the slightly negative side, I still feel a bit of pulsing under moderate braking pressure at the front, but in fairness, I've not changed the pads, either, and just used the old ones that were worn in on the other alu wheel set. Still, I believe the pulsing is from the rim joint.

The last and biggest issue is that I have had a couple of spokes come loose, too. However, I cannot determine whether the cause is native to the wheels, or derived from a multiple bike pile-up I was earlier.

At the time of the crash, which pulverized one of my brifters, I did a cursory overlook of the bike as I picked it up from the street and it seemed okay, but I didn't check the spoke tension. It was only at the end of the first ride after replacing the shifter (big respect to Casey at Tree Fort for the hook up and service upgrading my Athena to Chorus!), which was a rain-soaked 46 miler, that I noticed a bit of noise that led to the revelation of loose spokes on the rear, and pretty good scratch across the rim that indicated the crash caused some impact on the rim.

The wheel spun true, so I decided to gently snug the obviously slack spokes, two of 'em, in advance of the next ride, just on the lark it might be fine. Well, it wasn't, and the spokes loosened after that hard-paced 55 miler. The wheel stayed true still, yet I think I could feel the effects this time around. When we got back to the ride-head, I again gently snugged the spokes and complete the couple of miles back home. I haven't touched it since, but hope to get it to the shop tomorrow to have a proper tensioning done.

I did email AC about the tension specs, and they replied with the info and also said they advised doing a re-tension after about 1.5k miles of initial break in, which is pretty much where I am. I suppose it's pretty reasonable, particularly for a high-performance wheel set perhaps, to require some maintenance, so I'm not particularly annoyed by that fact, but the detail info on the wheels on AC's website does say something about how the balanced drive side and non-drive side spoke tension obviates the occurrence of loose spokes, so something is out of whack between expectation and reality.

As I said, though, the rear wheel remains impressively true, so I'm working on the assumption that a full tension adjustment will put things in order and I'll enjoy many more miles on these without issue (if I can keep from crashing!).

I can't think of much else to say about them, but I will be watching the rear spoke tension to see if it's going to be a chronic problem or what. As tubeless, they're pretty phenomenal in terms of feel (compared to clinchers), and I'm very happy with the purchase, for sure.

TripleZ

Chaad, My rear wheel came out of true within two weeks, two of the spokes were only hanging on by one or two threads on the nipple. I have had them trued three times so far. I like the look and the ride of the wheels. for now I am going to take them to Fairwheel bikes to be taken apart and put together with spoke prep and trued again. I hope that works. I can understand having a problem with a wheel out of the box but this is a bit much. Sorry for my rant, I spend this kind of money and have nothing but problems it just irritates me.

chaadster

Oh, I get it...I'm just not as far down the road as you yet, and I'm still holding out hope!

The thought that the wheels may not have been built as well as they could have been (e.g. w/ Spokeprep or similar) has crossed my mind, but I figure I'll run with the AC customer service line that a retension is normal and needed at this point. It's a bit of a leap of faith, especially considering they didn't say as much up front and even indicated explicitly that spokes would not loosen, but I also can't dismiss the fact that my crash, and being hit by two other riders, may have been the cause of the spoke loosening, so it's also only fair for me to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Do give us an update on how the re-lacing/building goes, and hopefully I can post some positive news regarding myself.

TripleZ

I wanted to get back with all of you after I had the bike gone through and the wheel rebuilt. I hope you can see enough detail with these pics. The nipples have a nylock insert and so far they are staying perfectly true, plus they are red witch adds a nice touch. Now i am very happy with them.

chaadster

Did you consider the AC design parameters when replacing the nipples? I'm curious, because you know, the AC nipples have extended threading inside the rim, past the nipple flange, which they say allows the spokes to "load in compression, not tension," or something like that, enhancing durability.

Mine have been running fine and true since a retension, although my mechanic did notice a ding in the rim I'd missed during the post-crash inspection. It does keep the rim from being perfectly true, but it's awfully close at the spec tension numbers.

Those rim walls are thin, so stay out of multi-bike pile-ups!