jumpstartjonny

I bought a '92 Paramount frameset with a unique paint job and found that the drive side dropout had been repaired with a weld that I don't recognize (TIG weld?). It doesn't look at all secure to me. I'd like to replace the dropouts but I'm afraid the heat would take out too much of the paint on the stays. I'd appreciate if someone could tell me if it's possible to replace without jeopardizing paint or if it can be repaired cleanly.

Kontact 

No, you can't put a torch to paint without burning it off.

Yes, a TIG or MIG weld can be completely secure and legit. This one looks competent enough.

BTinNYC 

Not a builder, I'm more of a framebreaker and I recognize that kind of break on that type of Shimano dropout. And drive side, of course.

When I had the same issue the fixer scarlson asked if I wanted the dropout adjuster screw as part of the fix and I said no. Looks like the owner of your very cool frame said yes, and that area around the adjuster needed to be built up in order to redrill, tap the hole, and add some strength. My opinion is it's not pretty but not worrisome. Those Shimano dropouts are very weak along the the adjuster hole and the extra weld is not a bad thing. Super cool paint, BTW!

Let's see what the pros say.

Framebreak


Adjuster hole filled

Andrew R Stewart 

I don't think I would say that Shimano dropouts are any worse that the Campy 1010s that had a well known history of occasional breakage, I've seen far more Campys broken.

The broken Campys I have seen usually crack at the chainstay tab, just after the stay end where the heat would be concentrated and sometimes on the web between the two stays. But so far from the brazing heat like these two Shimano show have me wonder about if getting a der tangled up in the spokes and bending the piss out of the dropout happened and the crack happened during the realigning effort. Andy

BTinNYC 

Mine broke while riding but it was a used frame...

How much paint would get scorched in a full replacement? Two-ish (sorry George Santos) inches on the stays?

unterhausen

I'm not sure what the minimum amount of missing paint would be. I think to get it down to 2" would require wet rags under aluminum foil. That might work down to 1", I'm not sure. Next time I feel like doing a repair (hate repairs) I am going to try it.
It worked really well with my S&S couplers, but they can go to a higher temperature without evidence.

jumpstartjonny

Thank you all very much.
I'm a lot closer to having the confidence to build up the frame without fear of the 'elegant' weld breaking and I'm willing to consider, if necessary, giving up a couple of inches of paint if it comes to that.
I'm also feeling a little more forgiving of the Shimano dropouts. I've always thought that I'd gladly replace them with Campy 1010/a but maybe breakage is more normal than I though, regardless of brand.
Thanks again. Glad I asked and your responses are much appreciated.

unterhausen

I forgot to mention that I would just ride it as-is.

People still occasionally sell Shimano dropouts on ebay. Not sure about the 1010b style though.

bulgie 

Yep, just ride it. The improvement from replacing it with Campy is nil and the cost is high (including the lost paint as "cost") — not good value for money. That looks like a perfectly cromulent repair.

I once worked at a place that made thousands of frames with Campy 1010b and then we switched to Shimano due to too many Campys breaking (tho still less than 1%). You just have to trust me when I say the break had nothing to do with our processes or skills, they weren't overheated or bent during manufacture. Then the Shimanos started breaking, in a different place, so it turned out to not be the panacea we were hoping for... Unfortunately with such low numbers of breakage, and so far down the road (many miles before fatigue), it was years before we figured out the Shimanos were only about the same in reliability as the Campy — oh well.

jumpstartjonny

Thanks, bulgie. And points for cromulent