Steve Sawyer

I'm working on my first bike build, and ironically, I started down this rabbit-hole because I took a wheel-building class last fall and needed a bike to put the wheels on - however, the bike I'm building would look fabulous with black wheels instead of the silver ones I built, so I'm going to get some more wheel-building practice (and my brother wants to buy the ones I did last fall ).

So I found Niagara Cycle who seems to be pretty close to a one-stop-shop for wheel components, but they seem to have two different black Sun CR-18 rims listed, and I can't tell what the difference is, other than one appears to have machined (or at least silver-colored) braking surfaces. Niagara doesn't seem to be super responsive to pre-sales questions, so I figured someone 'round here might be familiar with these enough to be able to tell me if the only difference is cosmetic:

Sun Alloy Rim 700c CR18 Black 36 Hole PV (SKU 6006)
SUNringle 700C Cr-18 36H Black, 22.5mm Wide (SKU 817400)

Also, if anyone thinks that there is a better/alternative source for wheel components (obviously I'm not doing a super-fancy build), feel free to make that suggestion.

Thanks!

Retro Grouch 

I don't know about those particular rims but I do know this:

Sun RynoLites are available in both welded and pinned versions. The welded ones also have a machined brake track but the pinned ones don't. It wouldn't surprise me if that were also true of CR-18 rims.

Dan Burkhart 

I thought CR 18s were all pinned, but I could be mistaken. I do know they are available in machined or non machined, eyeletted or non eyletted, polished or non polished, black or silver. Several options, you would think they would include a more complete description.

Steve Sawyer

You would, and I couldn't get any additional info from the Sun website - from the info on their site, you would conclude there is only one CR-18 in 700c - no options as to color, braking surface, joinery.

noglider 

Niagara is disorganized. Many items have more than one listing each. They are consistent, however, in their inadequate descriptions for all items.

Dan Burkhart 

I don't deal with them because of their refusal to ship to Canada via the postal service.

Barrettscv 

The all black rim is not machined. The second rim is machined, that's why the braking surface is alloy and not anodized. Get the second rim. The first rim will not brake as well, and the anodized braking track will wear, leaving a streak of alloy showing.

Kimmo

Unless your bike has hub brakes, hence the option.

Barrettscv 

Actually, non machined CR-18 rims are used with rim brakes frequently. Mavic also has sold thousands of anodized rims for use with rim brakes. However, machined braking surfaces are far better when used with rim brakes.

Steve Sawyer

Heh, heh...

In their favor, they're not BS-ers. Their automated reply to questions submitted via their website states "Due to the volume of emails we receive daily, we may not be able to answer all questions"

Kimmo

Yes, I know. I'm a bike mechanic.

I've also seen machined versions of rims available in both kinds laced to disc hubs.

But it seems pretty obvious the reason the manufacturer offers a non-machined version (or sometimes rather, anodised after machining), is it's an easy way to offer a wheelbuilder worthy of the title another option in the category.

But I guess they know they'll just get used for whatever, probably based mostly on what the rider prefers the looks of.

Steve Sawyer

It appeared from the picture that was the difference, but since neither description called that out, I was concerned that the picture may not be accurate, or that there were some other differences (type of eyelets, ERD etc.)

I'd prefer the machined surfaces. The anodized surface might stand up to the break wear just fine, but since I'm trying to make a "pretty" bike (the whole reason I'm starting from scratch with the wheels! ), I think they're much more attractive than the solid black.

I'm starting to think that these are rare beasts. I'm having trouble finding anyone other than Niagara that lists them, and Niagara is out of stock on them at the moment. I can find complete wheels configured with these black/machined rims, but keep coming up empty on just a pair of rims. I'm already way over-budget on this bike, and it seems any other brand (Origin-8, Mavic, Velocity, DT) is going to cost me a lot more than the Suns. Any suggestions as to alternatives are welcome.

wheelreason

How Ironic, I guess one could say they have you over a barrel...

ksisler

An example: Amazon.com : SunRingle Sun Rhyno Lite 700c 36 Holes Black Rim w/ Silver sides, Presta valve : Bike Rims : Sports & Outdoors

I noted that Niagara and Xtreme Bike & Sport are sources behind many of the Amazon sales, amongst others. I have used the SUN Rhyno-Lites in 40 and 48 spoke in both 700C and 26" as well as some 27" and 20" in various spoke-ings for older bike resto's. Have found them excellent/quick to build and very strong. All I have used in 26" and 700C have been the ones with machined sidewalls as I only use cantilever brakes and focus on good braking surfaces when looking for rims (if you are building disk brake wheels, then the black sidewalls might be attractive build). If you order quantity of 8 they will typically arrive sealed in the original Quality Bicycle Products: Bikes, Wholesale Bicycle Parts, Wholesale Bicycle distribution box with each rim protected in a foam sleeve to avoid scratching. Great for keeping stock on the shelf. If you are going to build several wheels, may want to check to see if you can get the shipping total to combine to a reasonable total (it usually does; at least for Q=8).

Hope that helps
/K

Kimmo

That's what I'd recommend; I've seen disc wheels with corrosion on the unused machined brake tracks, looked pretty crap.

Steve Sawyer

Unfortunately, the Rhyno-Lites are much larger (5mm wider -27.5mm vs 22.5mm for the CR18) rims, and I wasn't planning on sporting anything wider than 28mm (maybe 32mm) as I need room to mount fenders. Unless I'm being stupid and the 28/32mm tires will mount fine on a Rhyno Lite!!

Edit: I just did some quick searching, and the smallest I'm seeing recommended on a Rhyno Lite is 37mm.

ksisler

Steve -

Not sure what the min or max tire size would be for them, but they are effectively a "wider rim" probably intended for touring range of tires. I have several of them with 35mm and 37mm tires mounted for the front of bikes and several with 35mm, 37mm and 43mm mounted for use on the rear. In all these cases, the tires look good on the rims with nothing that would concern me.

On your second string; Having a hard time figuring out how tire size is driving your ability to fit fenders...? Can you explain a bit on your thoughts there?

/K

Jeff Wills

At the moment, one is in stock while the other is not. I'll bet the "out of stock" item was some factory's excess stock that may be unusual somehow- perhaps drilled for Schrader valves.

FWIW: Universal Cycles sells the CR-18 in 2 versions, brushed and polished:
Universal Cycles -- SunRingle CR18 Rims

IMO. silver rims are better than black since they don't show scratches as readily. Plus, I believe polished aluminum just plain looks better.

Steve Sawyer

For aesthetics, polished aluminum looks great depending on the bike color and other features. On the bike I'm building, the black will look MUCH better.

I'm starting to think you might be right about that out-of-stock item. While I'm finding some pre-built wheels with what appear to be black-with-machined brake surfaces CR18's, I'm not seeing them anywhere as rims. I'm thinking I might go with Mavic A119's which are black with machined sidewalls, maybe a little more $ than the CR18's, will support the 28-32mm tires I'm thinking of using, and seem to be readily available.

Steve Sawyer

The frameset manufacturer indicates that fenders CAN be fitted over 28mm tires, and MIGHT fit over 32mm tires (apparently depending on the specific tire).

iambent

There is an advantage to non-machined rims. When the sidewall of the rim is machined they are actually removing some of the alloy. Kind of like you have already had a 1000 mi. of brake usage cutting into your rim. I prefer the silver non-anodized non-machined rims. You get a rim that has not had any of the sidewall removed and will not show brake wear on the sidewall.

HillRider

Well, this isn't exactly a zombie thread since it's only been two months between postings.

I believe machined sidewall rims are extruded with thicker walls initially to allow for metal removal in the machining process. The final rims have the same sidewall thickness as their non-machined counterparts. In my experience, machined sidewall rims last just as long as non-machined ones and are easier on brake pads.

Steve Sawyer

Thanks for the additional thoughts - I ended up getting Mavic A119 rims for this project (which are black with machined brake surfaces). They and ALL THE REST of the parts for this bike are in boxes in my shop waiting for it to get cold enough that I don't have any riding or yard work to do!

arex

I have 700c RhynoLites on my Raleigh, and the 37's I have on them are at the very low end of what should be on there...you don't really dare go smaller. The only reason I got the RhynoLites instead of the CR18's is because my preliminary measurements made me think I'd be able to fit much larger 700c tires in the Raleigh fork.

iambent

They are actually harder on brake pads do to the fine ridges cut into the sidewall and they give less braking surface.

https://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=52

Machined rims by Jobst Brandt