mindfrieze

So I've been riding this Italvega road bike for about two years now and love it, but when I got it, it came with a DIY paintjob. It doesn't look terrible, but it chips way too easily. I've been thinking about having it repainted, but would like to know more about the model before I do. Unfortunately, I've never seen another version like it. Specifically, the head tube lugs and the seat stay caps look unlike anything I've ever seen on another Italvega.

Have any of you seen another model like this? Any idea what it is or when it was made?

jjvw

Hello Chicago! It might be nicer and newer than mine. Jump over to Classic and Vintage and you will learn lots about it.

mindfrieze

Thanks jjvw. Accidentally clicked the Commuting thread when posting. Rev.Chuck was kind enough to help me move it over here to C & V.

unworthy1

Seems like I have seen one like this, but it would have been way back in the past when this was new, so memory is foggy. I'd guess this might be one of the early frames made in a Japanese factory for Ben Lawee before he decided to go with "Univega" and still had a stock of the Italvega badges. I suppose it's possible it's built by some Italian supplier other than Torpedo, but I'd still guess Japan (and I'd further guess NOT Miyata)...until proven wrong. What's the width of the BB shell? What's the size of the seatpost?

mindfrieze

unworthy1, based on what I've read in some of Skip Magnuson's posts, this high 400,000 serial number should put it in '76 or '77, which would make sense for an early Japanese model.

The seatpost diameter is 26.8 mm, and the B/B shell width is 68 mm with standard ISO threading.

I should also mention that the rear driveside dropout had the derailleur hanger shaved off by a previous owner, in case anyone uses it's absence as a means of ID.

unworthy1

Those point toward a Japanese frame, the last clue might be if you ever get the headset off this to see if the fork crown is a 27.0 (JIS) diameter, that would clinch it. So this might be a "missing link" between Ital- and Uni-vegas. It still could be the work of Miyata, but I wonder if anybody has ever seen another branded bike with these lugs and other details?

jacksbike

I own an Italian made Italvega and to me this definitely looks like a Japanese manufactured frame. The lugs on the Italian frame are different than these. The rear dropouts look like they were of Japanese manufacture also.

mindfrieze

It's been a while since I messed with the headset (and I don't remember what the measurements were), but when I replaced the old no-name headset that came with the bike, I had in my inventory a choice of an 80's-era Campy Record or the old headset off an early-90's Tiawanese Giant.

Alas, only the Giant headset fit. Looks like one more clue pointing toward Japanese origin.

I'm still wondering this too. And what model might it be? I'd have to guess that it's at least a Super Record level, but I'd like to know more conclusively.

It's clear it isn't a typical Torpado frame - we've all seen what those lugs (etc.) look like, but if not Torpado (or Miyata), what is it!?

Skip Magnuson

Hi Mindfrieze,
I've collected 37 Italvega serial numbers so far and the highest s/n I've seen are *411231* and *410791* which I think are 1976 vintage. From the numbers I have it looks like Italian Italvegas were manufactured from 1970 to 1976. Your s/n of 6466241 is much higher. Also I have two early 1970 Italvegas and the lugs are quite different. What are the dimensions for your bike?
Skip Magnuson
Spokane, WA

cudak888 

Haven't I seen those Nervex-copy lugs on some of Panasonic's models? Or another type of Japanese frame? I know I've seen 'em before, and NOT on an Italivega.

EDIT: Ach - did this thing not ever have a derailer hanger?

-Kurt

mindfrieze

If you look closely, that first digit is a 'G' not a '6', which gives a numerical serial of 466241. This seems a lot more in line with the Italvega serial history that I've seen posted here.

Anyone have any idea what the G might stand for?

Figured someone would ask...the derailleur hanger was cut off by a previous owner, which suits me fine since I ride it as a fixed gear. I could never bring myself to cut it off on my own, but I'm happy to take advantage of someone else's indiscretion.

Torpado

I'm new to Bike forums, and this is a bit of an old thread, but I thought I'd try a response anyway. I've collected pics of a LOT of Italvegas, and as everyone else has noted, this is definitely not one of them. It would be interesting if this was a prototype of sorts for early Univegas, using old Italvega badge stock as someone suggested, but I've also never seen any Univega that looks even remotely like this bike. My feeling is that this is an example of the most likely scenario ... that is ... that some other bike was rebadged when it was repainted. I'd love to hear some facts about a missing link bike, but I doubt this is one. Skip has been patiently after me for some time for my list of Italvega serial numbers, but I've still not collected them all together in any one form ... but Skip ... I promise I'll do it soon, and then email!

Ciao - Mark

unworthy1

Looking at this again, many months later, it seems like the original color was a darker metallic red, and everything else has been repainted rattlecan red except the headtube. I wonder why the forkcrown isn't chrome (probably a replacement fork). I agree with Torpado that the Italvega headbadge looks like it was swapped in for the original, don't know how I ever could have imagined that this might have been anything ever made for Lawee...I was young and naiive, back in March! Now, if I had to hazard a guess for the original badge I'd say "Campania".

mindfrieze

As unworthy1 correctly pointed out, the headtube does not appear to have been repainted, probably because the amateur who repainted the bike didn't have the means to remove and reinstall the badge. In person, you can tell that the headtube has a deeper, glossier, more durable paint job than the rest of the bike. And of course, it's a slightly different color than just plain rattlecan red.

As for the headbadge, I've checked the inside of the headtube and there is no sign of other headbadge holes. I suppose that the bike could have been originally unbadged or had an identically sized badge, but from the looks of it, this badge has been on it for a long time, if not from the beginning.

The fork is definitely original. The steerer tube has the same original magenta-ish paint that the headtube has.


Since the original post, I've installed a new headset and had to cut down the fork crown race from JIS to ISO, so this is looking more and more like a Japanese job.

I've been going with the story that this is a Japanese ItalVega, clearly not Italian or from the Torpado factory. My theory is that it is potentially a missing link between ItalVega and UniVega. I'm guessing that Lawee's contract operations had already moved from Italy to Japan, regular UniVega production models hadn't been set up yet, and ItalVega headbadges were in overstock, resulting in this rather unique ItalVega-badged Japanese bike. And discounting the 'G' prefix, the mid-400k serial number seems to be in line with the known production history.

That's the story I'm sticking to anyway (until some better story comes along.)

T-Mar

If we assume this a Japanese frame (very high probability based on a 26.8mm seat tube and 68mm, ISO threaded bottom bracket shell) then the serial number format does match Miyata, who was a known subcontract manufacturer for Lawee and Univega. However, the serial number indicates a 1979 manufacturing date, which is after the Univega brand came into use.

As for the unique stays and lugs, I have not seen them on Miyata, but then any manufacturer will do whatever you want, provided you pay the premium.

I would not put too much stock into the serial for dating. Typically a subcontract manufacturer uses their own system and the Miyata manufactured Univega bear this out. So a Japanese system would have no continuity with the Torpado system, and the any resemblance to a sequence is probably coincidental.

umpire54

Several years later may I interject that I have a 1976 "Yellow" Araya tlhat has the exact same forks and lugs used on the headset, seatpost, and bb except that they are not chrome. You will also see them on some Criterium Rex bikes.

Possibly Araya for a time was making frames for Vista, Italvega, Univega as it emerged, and themselves for a period? My chrome lugs on my Italvega Super Record are more "Bianchi-ish".

https://www.flickr.com/photos/umpire5...7622283381989/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/umpire5...7622324703333/

I think it is the same seat post Bob...just at a different angle. Ill post another pic tomorrow. (too tired to walk to the garage tonight)

umpire54

Take a look at the Rex Criterium (made by Araya) for sale in the CV section and get back with me on the lug situation to let me know what you think. (started to post link but wasn't sure if that was koshur if the link didn't belong to me) Bodys and lugs the same...some chrome, some painted, some both - parts and headbadges different. You tell me! LOL

Soooo...the bike posted above was made by??? Interesting. I'm going to say someone put an Italvega headbadge on a RexC. Or were they all being made on the same assy line and someone messed up in the badging dept.

Notice the RexC is all chrome lugs but the Itavega from above seatpost is painted with chrome lugs up front. Beginning to wonder if I peeled off that yellow paint would my lugs and forks be all chrome too?

Those crazy factory guys in Japan!! We pray trik on you guzs in *******. Then again...I am not familiar with Univega. Gotta go study somemore.

mindfrieze

umpire54, thanks for the tip. I think you may be onto something with the Araya. My "ItalVega" shares all the same lugs as the Criterium Rex, including some versions I've since found online:

https://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q...x%20criterium/
https://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q...iterium%20Rex/

I've seen a matching lug or two on a Centurion and a Miyata, but I've never seen the same chisel-shaped seatstay caps, until now.

What's the serial number on your Araya? I'd be interested to see if it's in a similar format. As discussed above, mine is G466241.

Oh, and I discovered a while ago, mine is definitely not an ItalVega. I tore it down and stripped it, and the headbadge, while looking like it was riveted, turned out to be only epoxied on.

Take a look at the finished build. Now I know what to call it:

Fast Cruiser.jpg

umpire54

WOW...very nice. I gotta do a project like that some day! I have been noticing I like the looks of touring bikes lately...but I just haven't gotten one. (want some of those neat little racks to put some of "my stuff" on)

Hey...I am learning too as I research for my Araya - so your thread and all the others have helped me! Just last night I found yours and looked at the pics. Every little search helps. (over and over and over and...)

Some nights I ramble on as I search and learn...then a few nights later I think "man can't believe I said that" or I learn something else negating what I said...but it is fun to be excited about what I find on here. I like history, researching,...and I love vintage bikes bikes.

NOTICE GUYS: I bought an OWNERS MANUAL for ARAYA bikes off of ebay the other day. It says it is for 5/10/ & 3 speeds. The guy I bought it off of said it doesn't even have a copyright date on it so I bet it is pretty generic so they could use them for several years in a row before needing to make up a new one. It isn't fancy but I bet it's something not very many people have. 31 pages with information on how to's.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Haven't gotten it yet...but I plan on scanning it Anyone who wants a copy is welcome to have it if they send me a message.

Our bikes...if you look...were made with damn good components and details for the period. As good as most and better than some. (IMO) I like our bikes!

My s/n: E618777
SEND MORE PICS OF THAT BABY SOMETIME WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO...I MAY STEAL SOME IDEAS! JEALOUS OF THOSE CHROME LUGS!