ser_gio

I will be lacing a wheelset. After using several spoke length calculators online, I have found the following lengths:

Front: 265 mm
Rear NDS: 264 mm
Rear DS: 263 mm

The question is: can I buy a box of 264 mm DT Swiss Champion 14G spokes and use it everywhere? This will save me some money. I can also buy these three sizes individually if it will result in a notably stronger/better built.

I am building 36-hole Rhyno-Lite 26" rims (double wall) with 1991 SunTour hubs for a vintage MTB.

Thanks for any advice on this!

mpetry912 

from the measurements provided, YES, 264 will work, it really depends on the amount of dish on the rear wheel and whether your spoke calculator took the over - locknut dimension into account.

a highly dished wheel like a 130 or 135 OLD may show a greater difference in spoke length betw the DS and NDS

/markp

ser_gio

Thanks for the reply. This has 130 mm OLD with a 7-speed freewheel. The calculators found 263 mm and 264.4 mm for DS and NDS but recommended 264 for the NDS. If I use 264 mm everywhere, it will be a bit too short for the NDS but I am guessing less than 1.0 mm too short.

mpetry912 

it's really hard to say

you will probably be fine

"odd" spoke lengths are usually custom cut

there may be some other factors working in your favor if you have a rim with "staggered" spoke holes.

Try it and see is all I can suggest

/markp

urbanknight

This. Spokes are quite often only offered in 2mm increments anyway, and the standard practice seems to be rounding down. With that in mind, you may run out of threads on the DS rear, or you might be fine. You have to decide on the risk.

maddog34

if the front hub is a High flange design, you may find that a 265 would have been too long anyway.
i typically build 26" RhynoLites with 263mm spokes, front and rear.. DS and NDS... the two i have in front of me show nearly perfect finished spoke lengths.

PS.. Hub flange height barely changes final build spoke lengths. Punch a few variants into the online calculator to see. DS/NDS also makes very little real world difference... and most online calculators error to the long choice.

KCT1986

If the rim's ERD is measured to the bottom of the screwdriver slot, you should be fine. With most common nipples, there is about 1mm from the bottom of the slot to the top of the nipple, (a little protrusion is OK). On the hub side, the nipples have a little over 1mm below the slot, to where the bottom of the flare for the head begins.

With brass nipples this will be strong enough, especially on the NDS rear, or front wheel since each spoke will see less stress.

Mtracer

I'd be wary of using 264 mm spokes where the calculations say 263 mm. If the threads bottom out, your screwed. Generally there's a lot of thread in nipples and I wouldn't hesitate to go shorter by 1mm to make spoke buying easier. But going longer, there's a risk. Maybe go with 262 and 264. I know that odd lengths cost more.

Then again, you could just go for it, and maybe it all works out. Worst case, you have to buy some shorter spokes and redo that side you can't bring up to proper tension.

urbanknight

Just don't try that for radial lacing. But you're right for the more tangential patterns.

ser_gio

I see the concern with the DS being too long. The calculations will also include some error and if they are also on the long side, then I will end up with bottomed-up spokes at the last minute. Remove those, de-tension the rim, re-order shorter spokes. Then, I will end up with half a box unreturnable spokes. Too much of a gamble! I should just order three lengths from bike shops who sell bulk spokes by piece.

urbanknight

That's pretty much what I would do, partially because I have ended up with spokes slightly too long before. Now, may I ask where you buy spokes from that offers 1mm increments? Most of my places have either all even or all odd.

ser_gio

Below are a few vendors that sell in mm increments:

DT Swiss Silver Bicycle Spokes - Modern Bike
DT SWISS CHAMPION 14 GAUGE BLACK SPOKES - prowheelbuilder.com | Prowheelbuilder.com
Universal Cycles -- DT Swiss Champion 14 Gauge Silver Spokes

csport

If the spokes are a bit too long you can use something like Pillar DSN 16mm nipples, they will give you an extra 2mm (Rhyno Lites are double wall, no problem with double square nipples).
If the spokes are too short you can use DT Swiss 14mm nipples, this will give you an additional 1mm.

maddog34

sorry.. i should have specified with 3x laced builds... which almost all of my MTB wheel builds are 3x..

i think i've done two 2x builds and a few radial builds.. all of those were rim replacements, no spoke calc. needed.... just calluses and time.

maddog34

you might want to actually look at a built up rhynoLite rim some time... they are VERY low profile double-walled rims.. standard nips' tops are just below the inner surface and rim tape.
adding that square end pillar nip into the build would cause the tires to be Very Tricky and Difficult to install/remove, i'd say.

i just replaced a rim strip that was worn thru by a protruding nipple head... the owner had used a couple washers under it to make the wrong spoke "work".. it "worked" right through an inner tube. the wheel has now been properly repaired.. ten spokes replaced, lacing errors sorted out, "out of round" remedied.. it all happened because of no dork disc, a bent hanger overshift and trying to pedal out of it... total bill, including the new hanger and der. he installed... $150 or so, and one ruined riding day... The wheel has a small dork disc now.

ser_gio

You are absolutely right! The rim type makes a huge difference. After your reply, I looked at the Rhyno-light rims and they are very shallow. I used DT Swiss nipple and 0.7mm thick washer just to test. This makes the nipple sticks out inside the rim slightly which will eat the rim strip over time. So, washers or large nipple heads won't work with this. I will just buy three different spoke sizes to avoid headaches.

maddog34

or buy the 264s and deal with a couple long spokes with a dremel tool or spoke nipper tool... or use 263mm spokes like i have so many times... probably two dozen times.

question.. what is the spoke hole BCD diameter of that front hub? unless it's real tiny, the 263s will be fine.

ser_gio

It is about 35 mm. The hubs are old-fashioned SunTour. I attached the photo of the actual front hub.

Bill Kapaun

Many of us prefer a slightly lighter gauge spoke on the NDS since the tension on it is relatively low compared to the others. It puts in in a "more similar state of elongation" to the DS spokes.

I personally will use that same gauge for the front to save a few grams. Since the front is higher tension the the NDS, the spoke will "stretch" a tic more.
You might consider 1 length for both front & NDS? I'd go 264.

Bill Kapaun

ser_gio

This is great! Appreciated. Do you happen to have the rear hub specs? I attached a photo of the hub that I have. 130 OLD with screw type freewheel.

Bill Kapaun

It's in SpoCalc
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm

ser_gio

Got it! Thanks!

KCT1986

You seem to have all the components 'in-hand' so doing actual measurements would be the best way.

There is web info available on how to do the measurements.

For the hub, the flange hole circle diameter and hole size are more important to get accurate. The flange offset distance is harder to get totally accurate but will have less effect on calculating spoke length.

Measuring the rim ERD will be better than data found on the web, which may not specify the point of the nipple that was used to attain the measurement, or the profile of the nipple head. If you don't have spokes to measure the ERD, a spare brake or shift cable with 2 nipples strung on it will work. Seat the nipples and measure the length between and add the nipples length (2 x 11mm or so, to the bottom of the screwdriver slot, based on a 12mm nipple).

ser_gio

Thank you for the advice. I have been measuring the hub dimensions in the past few days. Many times! When I see Sheldon Browns number, it gave me confidence because they are matching with my measurements. I am now ordering three sizes of spokes to have (hopefully) a problem-free build.