zonatandem

The daVinci ICS system has been around for well over a dozen years. And to their credit they are still around and doing more innovative work . . .
Rode one of the first daVs on the road; a great tandem. We've been riding in tandem so long it's tough to teach old dogs new trix and we did not particularly like the ICS function.
Their workmanship is impeccable and if something doesn't work to their satisfaction, Todd designs his own, and improved, component.
Many new folks to tandeming especially like the daV ICS system as it gives stoker a bit of independence in the pedaling choice.
And, they are great folks to deal with too.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

WheresWaldo

More tandem pictures from InterBike in this Road Cycling thread by BoSoxYacht:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=470530&page=5

TandemGeek

Just based on a short visit to that thread, I'm quickly reminded why I seldom venture away from the tandem subforum...

WheresWaldo

The pictures were still good, though.

TG, and others, something most of you already know but bears repeating, each forum has its own personality. they have their own characters and it is hard to jump from one forum to another when you do so infrequently. Just as you felt about the Road Cycling sub-forum, that is how I sometimes feel about this forum. I mostly lurk here but not enough to get the real feel, the lay of the land so to speak. You have to be patient with your single bike brethren, they mean you no harm.

TandemGeek

I'll save those of you who don't want to surf the bother by including hot links to the postings with the photos in my comments, below:

The Santana photos are interesting...

• Good to see Mr. Bill working the booth in a number of shots and it looks like they've decided to raise the bar on the high-end of their offerings...
  
• Beyond now appears to come with an optional translucent colored top coat instead of just a clear coat so that they can be personalized.
  
• The Scandium and perhaps other models now seem to be sporting Exogrid Bi-Fusion down and boom tubes along with some sort of carbon seatstay...
  
• The 26" off-road Santana hardtails reminded me of the old Cannnondale Headshock forks with what appears to be a crown-mounted mono-shock.

Other photos

• KHS looks pretty much unchanged aside from new paint schemes and a shift towards lots of decals, ala Pinerello's 4Power and others in Europe.
  
• The bike that caught my eye at the Co-Motion booth was the single Cross bike, which looked pretty sweet.
  
• Calfee had a a SoCal customer's Tetra Tandem on display along with the shop's Bamboo tandem which garnered some less than flattering commentary from someone who doesn't seem too fond of Craig. However, what is interesting is what appears to be a prototype carbon stoker stem installed on the Bamboo tandem.
  

Anyway, I'll be anxiously awaiting the latest Santanazine with descriptions of all their latest offerings and, I suspect, some observations about their competitors latest offerings.

zzzwillzzz

all three materials, ti, aluminum + steel can be had with the exogrid downtube and boom tube. the person at the booth didn't mention the carbon stays and i missed them. i have the 'catalog' it doesn't show the exogrid stuff, i forget how much it adds to the price

TandemGeek

Here's one that slipped through the cracks... This is apparently an Ellsworth Ride2 tandem featuring the NuVinci CVP (Constant Variable Planetary) rear hub and some of the other features of Ellsworth's award winning "The Ride" design... BikeRadar suggests this will go into production but just looking at the bike it appears to be a concept bike that still needs some tweaking.

zonatandem

R2 . . . very interesting/novel frame design! With CVP, could be a candidate for a belt drive all the way around???

cornucopia72

The link takes you to the Co-motion pic.

TandemGeek

Whoops.. It's fixed.

The Santana photos are interesting...

I also added in the link to the photos that caught a little bit of Bill McCready working visitors to the Santana booth (the gentleman with the silver hair)

[*]Good to see Mr. Bill working the booth in a number of shots and it looks like they've decided to raise the bar on the high-end of their offerings...

mrfish

Really liked the CVP idea - looked up the data sheet here https://www.fallbrooktech.com/nuvinci.asp which shows how it works. Normal limitation is either gear range, torque transmission or efficiency of the system. Some basic calculations to see what fails first in a tandem application:

Key data as follows (from data sheet):
Low ratio 0.5
High ratio 1.75
Max 130NM at the hub
Min chainring to sprocket ratio 2.0

Some minutes in Excel shows that this is an equivalent range to 53x11 and 34x25, i.e. a bit better than compact crank users would run with, so tick the gear range box. Then chainring to drive it to put the gear range into the right speed ballpark would be 36x13 or something similar, so entirely do-able.

Final limitation is the torque transmission = 130NM at the hub. Given the overall speed ratio 36/13*0.5 = 1.38, this becomes 180NM at the pedal in bottom gear. With 175mm cranks this gives a max weight of 105kg on the pedal, which I think would be marginal for larger and or stronger tandem teams, but eminently suitable for singles and cruiser bikes.

Final check is efficiency - There seems to be data on this, but the NuVinci people aren't releasing it as it's not good news compared with a derailleur system. However they say the benefit of always having the right gear outweighs the lower efficiency, which I buy for non racing use.

MB1

We are quite happy with ours, thanks.

rmac

Right. The look of the welds are a feature not a defect. Stronger joints? An industrial look?

TandemGeek

The welds on all of the production models depicted at Interbike looked pretty darn good, despite some of the really awful weld beads we've seen pictures of in the recent past, e.g., Beyond example comes immediately to mind.

However, I've actually discussed the aesthetics of welds with some of the builders and most are reluctant to draw too much attention to how welds look since the beads can sometimes be more of an art form than a gauge of the strength of the joint. And, because it's an art form, a change in welders or different welders will often times cause weld joints to look different.

In fact, the TIG welds on the Santana Cabrio-10 don't look all that different from the TIG welds layed down on our '02 Erickson S&S tandem... good welds but no style points.

2592

On our old Santana I loved the large radius welds (brazed I would think). The welds on our new Santana are not nearly as pretty; if I ever repaint the frame, I may have the joints brazed over just for looks.

TandemGeek

Great photos of a Co-Motion Periscope Torpedo (top-end racing Periscope) sporting the Gates sync belt can now be found here: https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...&postcount=146

jgg3

Yes, that is very interesting. Is that a Salsa logo on the 71t chainring? Does anyone have comparative efficiency numbers for belt drive vs roller chain? It says "Carbon Drive", but the timing chain part itself looks like it is aluminum. Is Co-Motion advertising this yet?

TandemGeek

It's a Gates logo and Carbon Drive refers to the belt, not the drive gears. You can learn more about Gates' Poly Chain® GT® Carbon™ Belt system here: https://www.carbondrivesystems.com/

The Gates site doesn't speak to the tandem application and I've not yet seen anything from Co-Motion aside from their August Blog entry soliciting photos for their new catalog. In fact, the only reason I saw that was because I'd hoped to find some mention of the belt drive in the blog...

Perhaps someone who attended Interbike could advise if they had the new catalogs on hand at Interbike and what they said.

Murf524

Belt drive. Cool. I need to replace the timing chain on our Speedster I wonder if I can get an upgrade? Are they using a Bushnell eccentric with it?

zzzwillzzz

my brother and i rode a couple of commuter bikes with the nuvinci hub. it's really heavy when you pick the bike up but other than that is very nice. it's pretty cool to dial in the gear and be able to tweak it ever so slightly to keep it comfortable gear as the grade changes. it really good for someone that doesn't understand gears and isn't necessarily interested in going fast. instead of trying to figure out which lever to push or turn and which way to turn it, just twist the bar until you find what you like. it's great for someone new to the sport and perhaps a little intimidated by the technology.

carpediemracing 

I don't come here enough to remember the couple's name but a team here raced their tandem in a TT - white and green kit, with an enormous rear disk brake. I believe I saw a huge huge poster of them at IB. Can anyone confirm that? If it's the same couple then I wonder if the booth will be dismantled and tossed, and therefore a huge mounted poster would be available to the couple. For the life of me I can't remember the booth, may not have been a tandem booth per se.

cdr

TandemGeek

Hermes (Richard & Mary Ellen A.)



Santana also used this photo on the back cover of it's more recent catalog.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...10&postcount=1

72andsunny

They are even faster than they look.

dubbelop

Is that a Cannondale Headshok in some of their models or have they adopted some other in-headtube suspension? I've seen a similar system in a Koga Miyata single bike recently, I believe.

Brian

I have a few tandems shots amongst my photos.