NateRod

So... I bought a pretty short stem, and although it feels alright when I ride, I'm wondering if maybe a slightly longer stem would feel better.

I feel comfortable while riding. If anything, I think the wrists may be just in a slightly awkward position when I ride the tops of my RB021's, though I'm not sure if that's just normal awkwardness from just having switched from wide risers to a narrow pursuit bar, or maybe it's just how the shape of the RB021 allows you to hold it.

I'm following the KOPS rule of thumb so I think my saddle height and position are fine. Right? (see pics)

As I said, I feel comfortable enough when I ride but who knows if maybe with a few minor adjustments here and there, my riding position will be even more optimized.

Here's some pics (I apologize in advance for my paleness):

First, the bike itself, showing the stem:


and here's me riding the tops:


and here's me riding the horns:



BTW I look freakishily huge on my bike.

carleton

This is like trying to get fitted for a suit...via a message board.

FKMTB07

Looks like your saddle could come a little forward on the rails. Also, don't lock your elbows; you're more likely to injure your arms/shoulders that way. Instead, keep them slightly bent, elbows not sticking out, shoulders down and relaxed. Work on your core muscles so this position can become more comfortable. As for the stem, I'd go with an 80-90mm zero or maybe +5-10 deg stem.

NateRod

I'm not asking for a detailed fitting. Just if someone who is more knowledgeable than I am can notice something OBVIOUSLY wrong from the pictures.

I may be thinking my position is right because I'm comfortable enough, but I'm still pretty much a noob. Someone who's been riding for a lot longer could maybe notice something right off the bat from taking a look. "you look cramped up, you look too stretched out, you're alright but this or that will make it even better, needs more ballz2stems pics to judge, your bike is jackass, etc."

FKMTB07, thanks. Something along your line of pointers is what I'm looking for.

ichitz

if it feels right, it's right

EDIT: same goes for suits

icyclist 

""you're more likely to injure your arms/shoulders that way."

How would this happen?

OP - Yes, it's a short stem; perhaps more interesting is the angle of its dangle.

TheBikeRollsOn 

Try flipping the stem, see how that feels, if it is less comfortable switch it back, if it's better then you have fixed your problem without buying a new stem.

carleton

I would venture to guess that the bike may be one size too small which is why the saddle is place so far back. Also, the neutral grip of the bullhorns is on the flat part, not the tip.

Another *general* rule of thumb is to place the handlebar in or near the line of sight to the front axle. If the bars are waaay in front of the axle, stem or TT are too long, and vice-versa. This becomes an issue when out of the saddle sprinting or climbing as too much of the weight is over the front wheel tipping the balance point.

Also, it doesn't make much sense to stack a stem high just to run a downward shaped stem. The stem is most stable when it has no spacers and is against the headset...even if it's pointed up.

Further, the bullhorns should be shoulder width apart (the bone socket). Bars that are too narrow will restrict breathing, too wide are uncomfortable.

Do your knees hit the back of the bars when sprinting/climbing? If so, that's a problem.

As ichitz says, if it feels right, it's right. But, I'd venture to guess that if you got on a better fitting bike, you'd get more power more efficiently from your engine.

xsnakobx

It looks fine, but I'll agree with the comments about having spacers and a negative rise stem. Try to find something that requires less spacers (or take them all off and flip your current stem) but puts you in the same position. If it feels comfortable, ride it. Eventually you're body will tell you if something's wrong. Also, I think people are supposed to look big on their "track" bikes, just simply due to the geometry (longer TT than ST).

NateRod

Well, there you go! Thanks a lot, this all sounds helpful. My knees have never hit the bars at least to this date. Of course, my previous stem used to be longer, so the bar was farther away from me. Now, I still haven't hit the bars, but I won't know for sure until I get off and go for a good climb.

As far as the overall frame size, the thought did cross my mind once or twice. Sometimes I think that, despite all the measuring and research I did, I ended up erring too far on the conservative side and picked the frame one size too small. I remember being torn between 51 cm and 53 cm, and ended up going for the 51.

I'm going to try a longer stem, to see what happens. If I end up deciding that the frame is indeed one size too small, then I guess I'll have to make some decisions as to what my next step will be. The thought of having to sell this frame and get another one is dreadful.

icyclist 

It's difficult to discern from a photo, but the bike certainly doesn't look like it's a freakishly huge mismatch for you.

DIRT BOY

yes, too short. what size is the stem? Frame? Your height? all these can give you a general setting.

NateRod

the bike doesn't really feel like a big mismatch. I'm not a tall guy. I'm 5'8" with a 30.5" inseam. I measured myself before I set out to look for a frame, and based on my measurements it was either a 51 cm frame or a 53. Since I'd read time and time again that one should have at least 1" of clearance over the TT, I ended up picking the 51 cm frame, which had (according to the charts) a 29.5" height... exactly 1" below my inseam.

DIRT BOY

I am 5'7" in height and have a 31.2 in seam and run a 50cm frame. I have longish arms. I use a 110 with road or bullhorns and a 120mm stem MTB bars. With a a track frame I should be using 120/135mm, but I like this a bit shorter and higher on the FG. Without hoods I like the shorter cockpit.

One the road bike its 110mm stem with bars that have a 90mm reach.

I would start around 100mm if you don't want to be too stretched. What's the TT length on that frame?

velogy

My general philosophy is that sometimes you are delt some cards and you play them like they are. This is your bike. I agree that it's possible the bike could be too small. But this is your bike, and it's pretty cool.

I'd venture to guess that your riding style fits this bike pretty well and tha you've made decisions to the best of your knowledge keeping in mind your riding style.

When the geometry of a frame is smaller than optimal you typically see folks use longer stems. I would also recommend a 100 (maybe even a 110).

I have studied fit systems for a long time and I really enjoy it. Not trying to toot my own horn here. I just want to convey an opinion that may help you find something optimal. I have tons of resources too. Let me know if you need more information.

Best,
Mary

P.S. The picture makes it look like the nose of the saddle is tilted up just a hair. If it is, your arms could be working harder to keep you from sliding back with out you even realizing it. Eliminating strain and force with fit sounds like exactly what you are trying to do.

xsnakobx

Remember though, that for your standard, not-sprinting, not-climbing, just riding around town position, you should be able to take your hands off of the bars and hold yourself in that position with just your body. Unless you're racing (which, with a color-coordinated bike like that, I doubt), you don't really need to be very stretched out.

NateRod

No I don't race. Indeed I do mostly town riding, but I do put in the occasional sprint when I have a good long stretch ahead of me. And I climb over the bridges here pretty frequently. Haven't gotten around to trying that with the new stem setup though.

@ DIRT BOY: Actual TT: 51.5, Virtual TT 52.7

Just now I was spinning away on the rollers for a bit to try out my new saddle and my overall position felt SO much better than that with the previous saddle. Maybe it's placebo. Who knows. Or then again, indeed, a better saddle improves the situation. I'm still going to try a longer, shallower stem. Probably a 90 or 100 and i'm expecting it'll be much better.

Thanks for the pointers.

DIRT BOY

My Madison is 530.08 and Kilo tt is 523mm TT. I use a 110 & 120mm. Not that stretched out. Start at 100mm x 6 IMO

WoundedKnee

Tilt bar down slightly if you haven't, maybe?

Scrodzilla

Judging by the pics, I know I'd be uncomfortable riding in what appears to be such a cramped position, especially on the tops (where I'd most likely be a lot of the time if I had 'horns). I've got weird back issues though and my riding position has to be perfectly dialed in or my entire body feels really crappy.

It looks like your frame just may be too small (how tall are you?) based on how far your saddle is pushed back but getting a longer stem would definitely be an easy way to give you more room in the cockpit. If you ride a good deal, your body won't be shy in letting you know if your bike isn't a good fit.

bionnaki

recommendation: longer stem. positive rise. bend your elbows. hold yourself up with your core, not hands/arms.

spcialzdspksman

It looks like you would need a longer stem. And as someone else has already suggested, the frame seems a bit small for you.
But this doesn't mean you can't tweak it to make it fit you better. In the pics, you seem a bit cramped, which may not feel uncomfortable for short rides, but on longer rides, it will definitely take a toll and affect your performance.

From the information you have given, I would suggest:
1. Raising your saddle height.
(With the crankarm at 6 o' clock, your leg should be nearly straight, there should be a very slight bend.)
2. Pushing your saddle a bit forward, after you've raised the saddle height.
(If you've positioned yourself correctly on the saddle, the bottom of your knee should intersect the center axle of your pedal, given the ball of foot is positioned on the pedal's center)
3. Getting a longer stem, and if you desire, a more positive or just neutral offset. Once this is done the whole saddle height and positioning will feel more natural.

The end result would be a raised platform for your saddle, to accommodate the short seattube (b/c of your frame size), your whole body moved slightly forward, so you will have more power on the cranks, and with a longer stem, an extended position for your torso.
This video should explain this more in depth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAl_5e7bIHk
Hope this helps.

mander

That bike has a very steep seat tube that may be putting you farther forward than is ideal. You ahve the seat jammed all the way back and even that may not be enough for proper weight distribution, especially if you were going to run a stem that was much longer. To me your knee looks quite a bit forward of the pedal spindle. Is that incorrect?

carleton

I think this is the source of the problem. The bike is probably too small which is why everything else isn't falling into place. You don't seem to have any abnormal dimensions. I just went round and round with issues about my girlfriend who races track. As with most women, she's got long legs and a short torso. Hense all of the "womens' specific" bikes out there. Unfortunately there aren't any womens' specific track frames. You look normal. The majority of bikes are designed for men with normal proportions.

Take that rule about 1" stand-over the TT with a grain of salt. And this especially doesn't apply to track bikes which have a higher bottom bracket which based on geometry, will bring the TT up, too. I've had great fitting bikes where my junk was sitting squarely on the TT. The TT of my current track racing bike (with which I've had a professional fitting by one of the best race fitters in Atlanta) sits squarely on my junk.

A lot of people can (and do) make smaller bikes work. You can set the seat back and extend the stem, but the place where you'll feel squirlly is when you lean forward to sprint. Because the stem and/or your chest is ahead of the front axle this is really weird and unbalanced. Not so weird if you don't know anything different. But, when you do try a bike that fits better you will feel ROCK SOLID on it with no exceptions.

spcialzdspksman

But like I said, once you raise your saddle height first, the position of the saddle will automatically be pushed backwards as the seattube is obviously at an angle. Once you've done that, you'll have many more options with the fore/aft position of the saddle.