Maxey

Got this off 'The 'Bay' for a mere $90 plus shipping, which was quite reasonable. The seller didn't mention it being NOS, but looking through the pictures it seemed pretty obvious that it had never been built up. I doubt they ever sold any of the lowly, lugless Carbolite 103 frames as a frameset only so am still a little mystified as to its origins.

I also don't know what model it is. I looked through the available BF catalogs, also did the Google, and the nearest I can narrow down the year to is 1983. However, I didn't see any models with a similar paint scheme that had the internally routed brake cable ports and also a chrome fork. Then again, some of the online catalogs found here for Peugeot are a little blurry and small and so it's possible I missed this particular bike. Any ideas? Oh, and not sure why I didn't look there yet, but I can get a photo of the serial # if anyone thinks that would help to ID it.

Anyways, on to the photos. The plasti-chrome chainstay protector is lifting a little bit:



Neat little detail toward top of downtube, seems to be purely decorative:



Frameset came with what appears to be new, unused Simplex front derailleur, not sure of the model:


No idea of manufacturer or model of headset, is unmarked:


Looks like the typical cast dropouts, but with a nice raised area not usually seen on cast dropouts (I think):


And a couple of close-ups of the cable ports:

clubman 

Maybe a PH9 from Canada in '83?

Maxey

I think I already looked at that one in one of the catalogs, but the PH9 (thanks for the link) in your photo has external cables on top of top tube, and a painted fork. In fairness, the frame and maybe even the fork may be the same, but with different details. Anyone else?

Chombi1 

Internally brazed, lugless construction, Carbolite 103 frame tubing and the stamped steel but windowed rear dropouts points towards something like a Peugeot PH10 or PH12....from maybe around 1983.....
It was at the top of their lower end model line. A pretty nice bike at that level with the cool fully chromed fork and very good hadling and ride from its then already well known Peugeot excellent frame geometry.

Maxey

Thanks, Chombi1, that all sounds plausible; I may have to revisit the Peugeot catalogs as I think I generally blew past anything that had a 10 or 12 in its model name. It didn't even occur to me that stamped steel dropouts don't usually have 'windows.' I knew it, but it took you pointing out the windows for me to remember that it's not usually the case.

Any theories on how it came to be just an unused frameset with a derailleur and headset attached?

Chombi1 

Only reason I can think of is, If the removal of components happened when the bike was brand new,, they must have harvested the components to mount on to other bikes for owner's preferences or warranty fixes. Mass produced bikes were usually delivered as complete bikes with just minor assembly and mounting of components, all included in the box they came in. Maybe they never even fully assembled this bike to get the stuff from it.
BTW, there might be slight differences on these bikes based on where they were sold. Some could be sold earlier in one country than another or have differences in graphics and finish colors and even model names..... so take a note of where the catalogs you are looking at for where they were issued....

juvela

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check bottom bracket thread

there is the possibility of CH at this era and model level

making no claim

suggest to verify first prior to commencing build plans...

frame not quite late enough that BSC would be a possibility

looks an excellent buy in such like new condition


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Chombi1 

I had an 82 PH10S and I remember it having French bottom bracket threading. My 84 PSV on the other hand, has Swiss (CH) threading...

MauriceMoss

That certainly looks like an 84/85 PH11, although the Carbolite tubing sticker is confusing. I thought they only ever sported the Peugeot "BBT" tubing stickers.









And some random catalog scans:

Maxey

Excuse my ignorance, Juvela, as I am still on the learning curve with these vintage bikes, but how exactly does one determine the bottom bracket thread? I've discovered I'm very good at gathering frames and parts, but unfortunately my project to convert half of my garage into bike shop duty is lagging behind (but slowly progressing) and so I'm still in the hunter/gatherer phase, but haven't quite reached the builder phase yet.

Maxey

Sounds like yet another plausible explanation, so I'll go with that. Thanks, Chombi1.

Maxey

Notwithstanding the tubing sticker difference, that certainly looks like the same frameset in all other regards, so I'm gonna go with PH11 unless proven otherwise. The bike in the 2nd photo from top appears to have the same headset as mine. I didn't run across those catalog pages in my limited research, so mucho thanks for providing them MauriceMoss!

juvela

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CH (Swiss) thread has the same pitch diameter and pitch as does Metric/French thread: 35.0mm X 1.0

the difference between it and Metric/French thread is that the fixed side of the shell is lefthand threaded so one turns the cup counter-clockwise to mount and clockwise to remove

since you are new at cycle tinkering you may not have a CH fixed cup on hand to try

you probably do have a BSC/English/ISO one somewhere
BSC has a pitch diameter of 34.85mm so it can be started in a CH threaded shell but will bind up within a couple turns as the pitch is slightly different

if you can start such a cup in the shell the shell is CH threaded


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Maxey

Thanks for the advice and insight, Juvela, truly appreciated. I have a book called 'Bicycle Technology' that looks to have any info. I will need to become a competent tinkerer, but as is usually the case, life has been so busy lately I've barely had time to skim it yet. I've been tinkering with motorbikes for some years, so bicycles don't hold any great trepidation for me. Thanks again for your input.

juvela

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CH bottom bracket thread was only employed by two nations: FR & CH

it can be found on machines going all the way back to the interwar period

in CH itself it is only employed by some cycle manufacturers, others use Metric

within FR it is most commonly associated with Motobecane and Manufrance products


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dddd

I have heard of at least one instance of a Zeus frame having a Swiss-threaded bb shell, but I didn't see it with my own eyes.

And of course any frames from Switzerland.

My own PX10 Super Competition from 1979 is the only Swiss-threaded frame I've had. I used a back-and-forth action of "work" to nicely force in a UN72 Shimano bottom bracket having English threads on Aluminum cups (a totally successful install, still in use after 12 years).

My PH501 from 1984 is of the lugless type, having English threads or so I recall.

Chombi1 

Having CH BB threading on your bike isn't really a big deal.....yet.
There were enough BB manufacturers that provided BBs with such threading that finding one is still not that hard.
Phil Wood made retaining cups for their BB' cartridges for CH threaded BB shells. It would be the best, high quality BB you can use for a resto replacement. I think Velo Orange also sold CH threaded BB sets. Some French made CH treaded BB sets or just the cups, sometimes pop up at eBay in NOS condition too. They are usually unmarked, but I suspect, they were made by Stronglight, originally for use as OEM components by bike manufacturers on their bikes.

Maxey

All great info Chombi1, thanks very much. Just knowing it's CH threaded will help a great deal -- to be honest I'd never heard the term before. Getting comfortable with all the technical differences in various vintage bikes is something I'm still working up to, but I think I'll do fine. I used to know some vintage Yamaha part numbers and model codes by heart so I guess that sort of interest will help in the end.

jdawginsc 

So you basically used the bottom bracket shell threads to re-thread the alloy cups?

Wildwood 

Yours looks a later version of the PH10L from 1984 (I think).
Carbolite 103. Nice, relatively light for entry level racer. Nimble but bit whippy in larger size for 200lb rider. But my other road bike was a tourer, Centurion ProTour15.

dddd

Yes, the threads were greased, so I just kept on working in each cup until It finally bottomed, then back and forth a few more times to establish bottom in a repeatable way.
I never bothered to remove the cups after to remove the metal swarf.

I wouldn't have a problem with running an English tap in part way, then doing the same as above except using steel cups, which would give the same effect.
Maybe just cut a few tapping notches in the cup threads to assist with re-forming the threads to the exact size as the cup, instead of with normal clearances, no tap required.
Use of moly grease to prevent galling.

JIS 115mm symmetric gave good chainline with the Stronglight 93 crankset, with clearance at the chainstay and with sufficient front derailer retraction for downshifts.