elcruxio

If you ever do come to the baltics you'll need a wheelset much sturdier than you have now, at least if you plan on straying from the Via Baltica at all.

I'd say it's a miracle that my bike has survived intact, but it's an lht so it's really no miracle as it was designed for this kinda stuff

Squeezebox

I will agree again that Trek should have used more spokes to reassure the tourists. But on the other side Trek says these wheels should withstand the Great Divide trail.
The 920 came with 29x2.0 tires, without the fenders maybe a bit wider, maybe. Do you think the wider tires might make enough difference?
We shall see!
Happy trails!!

I never said more expensive is always better, just usually lighter stronger more durable. I believe there a few folks on carbon and Ti bikepacking stuff that are running gears that Di2 could handle. But agree that is a tiny % of bicycle tourists.

I'm not here trying to say I am touring god. I have a different opinion about touring bicycles than that of most of the LHT crowd. Maybe we can calm down and discuss things respectfully, myself included.

ColonelSanders

Did you retire your Masi after 100,000 miles because you were concerned about the frame's integrity?

Salamandrine 

Essentially. The steer tube has a small bulge where it is preloaded by the stem wedge. And no, it was not over tightened. If anything torque was under spec. This seems to happen even with normal pre load given enough mileage. There is a tiny bit or rust spidering on the top tube, though it is mostly cosmetic. The campy crank has a crack at the classic spot next to the spider.

Given the mileage, the original paint is actually pretty good. I may get the steer tube replaced and do a full restoration at some point, but I do appreciate the original finish. I guess I retired it because of a combination of many small things, and frankly, I mostly keep it for sentimental reasons.

ColonelSanders

Thanks for that info.

I don't know what is considered a normal distance that a quality frame like your Masi should be capable of racking up before such issues occur, so is that a fairly normal problem after 100,000 miles or were you just unlucky with that particular frame?

Salamandrine 

I'm thinking I'm lucky I got that much out of it. It may not surprise you that I agree with the late Jobst Brandt about the threadless stem being a better design.

I'd say that most racing frames do not see nearly that much cumulative mileage in their lifetimes. IIRC it was typical for a cat 1 or 2 or pro racer not use the same bike more than a couple years, which might be 40-50k miles at that level. Most amateurs are only going to ride a tiny fraction of that. So 100k miles is probably relatively exceptional.

While the Masi is fully repairable, the main thing is that now that I'm an old tourist instead of a teen racer, I prefer a slightly larger frame. Also, it just doesn't look right with clipless pedals on it, and I'm not going back to slotted cleats!

ColonelSanders

The good thing is that you got your money's worth and now can get a new bike with a totally clear conscious.

rekmeyata

While I only made it to Cat 3 we had to pay for our own bikes, none were ever given to us, so replacing the bike every 2 or 3 years was out of the question. I only raced on my Trek 660 for 4 years and put about 60,000 miles on it during those years, but after words I accumulated over 160,000 total (including the racing years), and never had any problems with the components (Suntour Superbe stuff) or the frame, in fact the bike today is still rideable even though I don't ride it. I don't have any bulge on the headtube due to the quill stems wedge, and I know I'm not unusual because I've run into others over the years that had 100,000 and more on their older steel bikes and never had any frame issues.

So I'm not sure I agree with you saying that it's common for steel bikes to have that when they get over 100,000 miles. If the bike gets whacked head on by a curb or some such thing, or the wedge is over tightened, or the wrong size stem then maybe, but not from just using it; the most common problem is folks over tightening the stem, at least someone did at one time, could have been the owner, could have been a LBS mechanic. But to use that as an example of how much better threadless designs are is wrong because a private person or LBS mechanic could do the same thing and over tighten the carbon steerer and crush it!

HTupolev

Not head tube, steering tube. It's the tube coming off the top of the fork that rests inside the head tube, connected to it with the headset.

If the wedge was actually bulging against the headtube, it would be quite surprising if the steering was still rotatable!

rekmeyata

Sorry I was typing and thinking in haste, I meant steering tube, which is why i mentioned the carbon crushing thing. Sorry. Anyway replace my head tube with steerer tube in my rant and all the info is the same, it just doesn't happen do to use.

Salamandrine 

I didn't say it was common, if I implied it, it wasn't intentional. I said: "This seems to happen even with normal pre load given enough mileage." In retrospect I should have said sometimes.

I know everyone says it can't happen unless the stem is overtightened, or it gets whacked, as you say, but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Who knows, maybe the steer tube got heated too long and lost its temper in the build process or something, or maybe I was just unlucky. Oddly at around 60-70k it was fine.

DropBarFan

I was a bit surprised about that change too, I guess it helps keep the price down a bit. I now use barcons but I think brifters have a slight safety edge. 2004 Rando had a sharp-looking metallic dark blue/silver paint job & now has mousy olive.

GerryinHouston

Don't get me started on the paint!... Strangely enough, there are people in my biking group that like it!...

It seems that Novara has moved away from the metallic paint in their touring bikes (Randonee, Mazama, Safari).

The main reason I got the bike was for peace of mind for my weight and the possibility to go touring once my SO retires (she says maybe next year...). The only 'touring' bike I had access to which had brifters and a divine paint job was the Bianchi Volpe, but I cheapened out.

meyers66

Hi,
I agree with your comments and read the forum for the same reasons. If you start with the user and look at your needs you can find a good touring bike for less that $2,000US using some of the advice on this forum. Everyone knows when you buy a car from a showroom not to trust the salesmen so why isn't the same logic used for buying a bike? It is their job to sell you. The common mistake I see is new buyers paying more for a bike than they need out of bike vanity. If you are new to cycling I suggest getting a used commuter bike that fits, ride it for a while to learn the pros and cons and talk with people. Then read a book on the biking subjects that interest you like Adventure Cycle Touring by Lord. That book introduced me to bikes I had never seen or heard of like the Volpe. Highly recommend it. In 07 I bought mine for less than $800 and haven't looked back.

Also a while back I read that most bikes are made in Taiwan and China. The high to medium in Taiwan and the medium to low in China. Why? Money. Or the myth or fake claim that a bike with 51% of its parts made in the US and 49% made in China is a US made bike. Come on. Common sense would tell you business men make business decisions for money. And users buy bikes often based on emotion. The book Psychology of Persuasion comes to mind. So take a step back analyze what you need and trust your gut. If it feels like hype, walk.

DropBarFan

Heh, yesterday I saw a Japanese anime show "Yawamushi Pedal" about a high-school kid who gets into bike racing but has to start out with his "mom bike" commuter. Earlier his parents put on a low gear thinking it would slow him down & keep him from straying too far; instead he just got good at high-cadence. The show, unlike most anime, is realistic including a lot of technical narration about bike racing--they even mentioned (without naming) Lance & his 130 rpm climbing! BTW some of the new features are introduced on commuting bikes: disc brakes were fairly common on nice commuters before getting popular for touring/road; some commuters have IGH/belt which can be convenient for touring.

Taiwan has a big bike industry, kinda surprising the whole thing hasn't moved completely to China since AFAIK wages much higher in Taiwan. Anyway Taiwan bike products seem to be very good in general.

saddlesores

republic of china = good stuff
people's republic of china = second-rate often counterfeit carp

taiwan (our china) is highly developed with modern technology
and western standards of quality control.

the mainland (their china) is still pretty much living in the past.
state-run enterprises still control a huge percentage of the
economy. business practices can be summed up in one famous
saying.......

"if you're not cheating your customers, you're cheating yourself!"

rekmeyata

The use of barcons today in the touring world is about simplicity, low cost, and ease to repair, if a person damages a briftor or something wears out it can't be fixed on the side of the road and must be replaced which could cost upwards of $350 depending on model, whereas with barcons if it can't be fixed the replacement cost for the best barcon is $120.

I know everyone will argue about what I said so read this for more information: In Defense of Bar-End Shifters

jefnvk

Short of physically breaking the lever or the attachment screw, I fail to see how you would ever break a bar-end shifter. All it is is a lever with a spot for the cable milled out. Forget about the witch doctor in Inner Yakistan fixing it, they could probably just visit the local machinist and have a new one built in an hour. Or, you know, a tube of JB Weld and you're done.

Happy Feet

I wish the best were only $120. I just looked through the lbs cataloges and those darn things were ranging from 120 - over 400... crazy!
The easiest field repair solution is to have/use a simple friction thumb shifter for the rear derailer. The cable is long enough for front or back and it can be thrown on in minutes until a proper replacement can be found down the road. The long cable can also be used as an emergency brake cable in a pinch.

Squeezebox

I'll stick with my brifters, I like them a lot. I don't like bar ends, a lot. Seems to me the mechanism inside the brifter and bar end would be fairly similar. I've never taken apart either. I don't think either breaks very often. I don't think durability of brifters vs bar ends or frame materials used makes much difference. They just don't break very often. And if they do they most often warn you first.

mstateglfr 

Wiggle and Chain Reaction sell Dura Ace bar ends in 10 and 11 speed for $75-85 USD.

I do not consider Campy TT carbon 11sp bar ends to be part of this discussion as they are clearly not for touring.

rekmeyata

Barends? where did you say you looked, oh that's right LBS catalogs. Try this: Shimano SL-BS77 9-SPEED Bar End Shifters > Components > Drivetrain > Road Shifters | Jenson USA
Or this: wiggle.com | Dia-Compe Bar End Gear Shifter Set | Gear Levers And Shifters Road
Or this: Dia-Compe ENE Bar-End Shifters Even has that old school look.
Or this if you want supposedly the best: https://jet.com/product/detail/bc404...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

There a lot of these for less then you found.

rekmeyata

Not even close to the same; see this exploded view of a barend and note it's simplicity: https://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/simplex-barend.jpg

All I could find for Dura Ace briftor was a exploded view of just replaceable parts, there are a lot more parts that aren't replaceable that are not shown on this: https://vid.artscyclery.com/pdf/Shima...r%20Manual.pdf
This is for the Campy Ergo system: Campagnolo Ergo Lever Parts (1998-2008) - Branford Bike - Seattle/Bellevue - Campagnolo Pro Shop

Now tell us again how much alike the bar end is to a briftor?

jefnvk

At the end of the day, all a barend is is a cam, on a very basic level the exact same thing as your QR lever. The brifters are full of ratcheting mechanics to do their magic.

Will either likely break due to normal wear without warning? Probably not. Do I view one as far more likely to become unusable in the event of a wreck or rough luggage handlers? Yep.

rhm

No doubt there are many that I haven't worked with, but I've never seen one that involved a cam.