Once again: Health VS Cycling Accidents
12-03-16, 09:12 AM
#101
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Five US cities have made improvements to cycling infrastructure with protected bike lanes. Predictably, cycling has sky rocketed while fatalities dropped.
12-03-16, 10:27 AM
#102
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Inventory of Protected Bike Lanes | PeopleForBikes
altho my city has numerous streets listed with PBLs, their total length is only about 10 miles.
12-03-16, 04:05 PM
#103
Senior Member
I've read every post. Most have avoided the key point of whether, or not to ride. Instead they have explained how they cope with the perceived risk.
I like to establish fundamental facts and go from there.
THE fundamental fact is that each and every person is going to die. They will die in various ways. But they will cease to exist as human beings.
Each person has the right and responsibility to live that life as will best benefit them. Some will foolishly allow others to make decisions for them. Some will make decisions that many will consider wrong.
The biggest wrong decision is to let others, no matter how well intentioned, to make life decisions for them.
So decide what YOU want to do. Don't lay off the decision on your supposed desire to please someone else. That is a cop out.
Live your life as well as you can for as long as you can. Then, don't be greedy for a few last hours, or days. Leave with as much dignity as you can muster.
I like to establish fundamental facts and go from there.
THE fundamental fact is that each and every person is going to die. They will die in various ways. But they will cease to exist as human beings.
Each person has the right and responsibility to live that life as will best benefit them. Some will foolishly allow others to make decisions for them. Some will make decisions that many will consider wrong.
The biggest wrong decision is to let others, no matter how well intentioned, to make life decisions for them.
So decide what YOU want to do. Don't lay off the decision on your supposed desire to please someone else. That is a cop out.
Live your life as well as you can for as long as you can. Then, don't be greedy for a few last hours, or days. Leave with as much dignity as you can muster.
More broadly, life is about risk management. Part of that is knowledge that is learned. Part of it is experience based on making mistakes and hurting ourselves. Part of it is lore, which is sometimes misdirected, or may even be a societal mechanism to maintain an element of control over the masses.
Riding a bicycle is about risk management. It is as much about equipping yourself with the tools that can do the job for you without increasing the risk of injury or worse to the rider. That includes having a mechanically sound bicycle, and relevant safety equipment, whether that is conspicuous clothing, lights or helmet.
But knowledge -- how to ride the bike, then how to ride in less-than-ideal conditions, then how to ride with and in traffic, then how to pick routes based on an assessment of risk you face from other users -- remains as the number one requirement. And as I said, that knowledge usually comes from experience, with exceptions.
I once designed and ran learn-to-ride courses for adults. It was a completely separate challenge to running courses for children, because most adults are risk-averse, and their overwhelming nervousness is palpable because bicycle are perceived as something that can hurt someone (and let's make sure, that is very sound reasoning based on fact). I even had a professional pianist in her 40s who was paranoid about falling and hurting her hands -- her livelihood.
The courses were successful in their own way, but the greatest resistance to continuing them came from the logic that it's better to spend hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars on infrastructure, than to educate a person to ride a bike so they can get enjoyment, fitness and mobility much more rapidly than through experience alone. The logic is ill-founded, of course, but is based on the notion that "everybody knows how to ride a bike". That's like saying "everybody knows how to drive a motor car". Of course, they don't...
12-03-16, 06:03 PM
#104
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Well Rowan your long and rambling treatise leaves me a bit confused. I don't think you understood at all what I was saying.
Restated in a very brief and almost crude way; I was saying that it is up to each person to make their own decisions about what and what not to do. It is that person's life. To let someone else make those decisions is a cop out and an abdication of each person's right and responsibility. And there ends and reference to morality, philosophy, or much of anything else.
All the rest is just so many bytes on a server and merely obfuscates the fundamental point.
Restated in a very brief and almost crude way; I was saying that it is up to each person to make their own decisions about what and what not to do. It is that person's life. To let someone else make those decisions is a cop out and an abdication of each person's right and responsibility. And there ends and reference to morality, philosophy, or much of anything else.
All the rest is just so many bytes on a server and merely obfuscates the fundamental point.
Last edited by ModeratedUser150120149; 12-03-16 at 06:07 PM.
12-03-16, 06:14 PM
#105
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The OP isn't about whether or not to ride. It sounds like the OP is comfortable with his decision.
The post is about family concerns about the supposed dangers of doing so. This isn't about fats at all, it's about perceptions, and how to gracefully deal with concerned family members, regardless of whether those concerns are valid or not.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
12-03-16, 06:56 PM
#106
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I used to ride a Huffy 10 speed everywhere, back in the 70's. I used it to camp, and fish trout in the U.P. and when it got stolen, I bought another one. I think they both cost me about $120.00 back in '71 and '73. I could not afford a car, and so it was my only transportation in High School. Needless to say, not many dates either when you have to walk.
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs at the local "no kill" shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00
. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.
$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of, it is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing.
J. Sanders
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs at the local "no kill" shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00
. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of, it is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing.
J. Sanders
Last edited by JeffAug13; 04-23-17 at 06:27 AM.
12-03-16, 07:10 PM
#107
Senior Member
I used to ride a Huffy 10 speed everywhere, back in the 70's. I used it to camp, and fish trout in the U.P. and when it got stolen, I bought another one. I think they both cost me about $120.00 back in '71 and '73. I could not afford a car, and so it was my only transportation in High School. Needless to say, not many dates either when you have to walk.
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs the local no kill shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.
$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of. It is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing
J. Sanders
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs the local no kill shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00
. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of. It is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing
J. Sanders
Welcome also.
And don't worry about the thought that you might be rambling. You'll only offend one person in this thread who couldn't help but register his angst. But also, that's not unusual, either.
12-03-16, 07:33 PM
#108
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Thank you Rowan. I appreciate that, and hope no one was offended. Of course I reread it after posting and could have cleaned it up, but my original reason stands.
I hope to learn as much here as I did on motorcycle "newsgroups" back in the 90's
I hope to learn as much here as I did on motorcycle "newsgroups" back in the 90's
12-03-16, 11:40 PM
#109
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You may have rambled a wee bit, but your post touched my heart. I sometimes realize that I haven't told my son how much he means to me for a while, and now is one of those times. I think I'll get right on that. He was born the same year that yours was. Thank you and welcome to BF.
12-04-16, 12:54 AM
#110
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Location: Minneapolis
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Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
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Welcome to BF. It's hard to read your story - it's heartrending.
But to skip back to the main topic of the thread, if you live in Hastings, there are tons of routes in your area that should provide very quiet roads - paved and unpaved. To the west and south of you are some of the most popular gravel biking areas in the midwest. And if you head due west into Wisconsin on the secondary roads (e.g., towards Ellsworth), you have almost unlimited (albeit hilly) quiet roads to ride.
I have to disagree with you about riding bicycles in the Twin Cities, however - it's one of the most bike friendly and bike-aware urban centers in North America, with plenty of bike lanes and trails and, for the most part, courteous drivers (there are jerks everywhere, of course). But many of us in the Twin Cities make pilgrimages to your area to ride - you live in one of the best places to ride in the US, IMHO.
But to skip back to the main topic of the thread, if you live in Hastings, there are tons of routes in your area that should provide very quiet roads - paved and unpaved. To the west and south of you are some of the most popular gravel biking areas in the midwest. And if you head due west into Wisconsin on the secondary roads (e.g., towards Ellsworth), you have almost unlimited (albeit hilly) quiet roads to ride.
I have to disagree with you about riding bicycles in the Twin Cities, however - it's one of the most bike friendly and bike-aware urban centers in North America, with plenty of bike lanes and trails and, for the most part, courteous drivers (there are jerks everywhere, of course). But many of us in the Twin Cities make pilgrimages to your area to ride - you live in one of the best places to ride in the US, IMHO.
I used to ride a Huffy 10 speed everywhere, back in the 70's. I used it to camp, and fish trout in the U.P. and when it got stolen, I bought another one. I think they both cost me about $120.00 back in '71 and '73. I could not afford a car, and so it was my only transportation in High School. Needless to say, not many dates either when you have to walk.
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs the local no kill shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.
$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of. It is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing
J. Sanders
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs the local no kill shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00
. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of. It is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing
J. Sanders
Last edited by MinnMan; 12-04-16 at 12:59 AM.
12-04-16, 02:45 AM
#111
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I used to ride a Huffy 10 speed everywhere, back in the 70's. I used it to camp, and fish trout in the U.P. and when it got stolen, I bought another one. I think they both cost me about $120.00 back in '71 and '73. I could not afford a car, and so it was my only transportation in High School. Needless to say, not many dates either when you have to walk.
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs the local no kill shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.
$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of. It is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing
J. Sanders
Briefly had a Raleigh Mtn. Bike in the 80's, but started to focus on motorcycling, both commuting and day trips while the kids were in school.
Fast forward to '13. My youngest son died at 23. Suddenly.
For therapy I walked dogs the local no kill shelter in some of the worst weather I can remember. We were both talking about doing that shortly before he passed, so I just grabbed on to it. I ended up adopting a dog and the very day I brought her home (Australian Cattle Dog) My son's gf called and asked if we could take his puppy. Now 6 months old. I mention this because even with the activity of two highly active dogs I needed something else.
I bought a Trek bottom of the line road bike and set out with the thought of really beating myself up to relieve the pent up agony. I ride on the county roads, and they have nice wide shoulders. I rode only 800 miles that first year. A lot of it was in tears and screaming, because no one can hear you out there. I never told anyone that, not even my wife. She just thought I was displaying some Freudian **** with this bicycle fixation all of a sudden. The one thing that I thought was very odd was even with the 5 ft' (?) shoulders I noted that people were crossing the fog strip and edging into my lane from behind (I ride with the flow) I really did not care then, in fact I may have welcomed it. It is all a blur...
In the 2 years since I have been almost run down by a left turning 18 wheeler. I had to jump off the pedals and drag the bike backwards or his trailer would have taken me out. I watched him, and he never looked at me, was watching for vehicles. The trucker across the street on the opposite ramp at a stop sign saw me and I saw him reaching for his CB mike. I really hope the blind driver of that rig got his message.
I have seen women old enough to know better cross the center line at 60-65mph and come straight at me on some of these long, boring straights out here. They are looking down...
I ride a big ol' BMW GS ADV and I see stuff on that thing too, but I have had more close calls on a bicycle in the last 3 years of riding then I have since street riding motorbikes in '85. I will not take the motorcycle into the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. It is just to dangerous. About 50% of the people do not give a **** about anything but themselves anymore. There is no way in hell I would ride a bicycle on the street in the city either. My point here is, it is probably more dangerous then motorcycling (where I can maintain traffic speed) I applaud and cringe at the same time when I see the courageous souls negotiating the city traffic on bikes.
On a side note. When I bought the Trek it was about $900.00
. I went home and googled what a $120.00 was worth with inflation from '72 to '13.$900.00, I went and bought it the next day. It is my trainer in the basement, but I really thing the top end is geared faster then the Carbon Domane I bought the next year
Bought a Fat Tire to go with my fat gut and plan to ride all this winter for fun
Kind of a rambling post, well not kind of. It is. I am not going to reread this if I do for correction, I'll chicken out and delete it
Bicycles are therapy for a lot of us I am guessing
J. Sanders
Thanks
12-04-16, 10:48 AM
#113
Recusant Iconoclast
this site has a link to an inventory of US localities with protected bike lanes.
Inventory of Protected Bike Lanes | PeopleForBikes
altho my city has numerous streets listed with PBLs, their total length is only about 10 miles.
Inventory of Protected Bike Lanes | PeopleForBikes
altho my city has numerous streets listed with PBLs, their total length is only about 10 miles.
Most, as a roadie most of my desired rides are far away from any protected lanes.
12-04-16, 11:21 AM
#114
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MinnMan I should have been more clear. I would be really uncomfortable riding on the street in the cities. Trails and paths are great, I intend to explore some of the city wide network soon.
A new trail will be complete this spring linking us to Prescott Wi. and the western trail through Char's bluff is spectacular and it is complete finally. I am going to hit that one today.
A new trail will be complete this spring linking us to Prescott Wi. and the western trail through Char's bluff is spectacular and it is complete finally. I am going to hit that one today.
12-07-16, 12:35 AM
#115
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Is there such a thing as an anecdotal statistic? Here is a candidate - a home-brewed back-of-the-envelope attempt to quantify cycling risk. I'm sure somebody out there has better-validated numbers.
I ride with a large club in the Twin Cities, with about 1500 active members who collectively ride between 750,000 to 1,000,000 miles in club rides each year, and probably about an equal amount of miles in non-club rides (for example, many are cycling commuters. I am not a commuter, but about half my annual miles are with the club). Rides are urban, suburban, and rural. In the 7 years I've been riding with the club, I know of 3 fatalities. One was a heart attack on a non-club ride (urban, I think). A second was a bicycle-bicycle crash in a large pace line during a club ride (rural). A third was a hit and run during a non-club ride (suburban). So that's 3 deaths in about ~10 million miles or ~30 deaths/100 million miles. ~20 if you say that the heart attack was not really a bicycle accident. Automobile fatalities in the US are on the order of 1-2 per 100 million miles. So per mile, cycling is more dangerous than riding in a car, which normally speaking, is the most dangerous thing we commonly do. If you normalize by per hour rather than per mile, the comparison is less severe, but cycling remains more dangerous (assuming that my sample has any statistical validity).
Of course, I have no estimate for the rate of non-fatal injuries, and there are many many of these. I think we all know, that among dedicated riders eventually everybody goes down and does some damage.
I ride with a large club in the Twin Cities, with about 1500 active members who collectively ride between 750,000 to 1,000,000 miles in club rides each year, and probably about an equal amount of miles in non-club rides (for example, many are cycling commuters. I am not a commuter, but about half my annual miles are with the club). Rides are urban, suburban, and rural. In the 7 years I've been riding with the club, I know of 3 fatalities. One was a heart attack on a non-club ride (urban, I think). A second was a bicycle-bicycle crash in a large pace line during a club ride (rural). A third was a hit and run during a non-club ride (suburban). So that's 3 deaths in about ~10 million miles or ~30 deaths/100 million miles. ~20 if you say that the heart attack was not really a bicycle accident. Automobile fatalities in the US are on the order of 1-2 per 100 million miles. So per mile, cycling is more dangerous than riding in a car, which normally speaking, is the most dangerous thing we commonly do. If you normalize by per hour rather than per mile, the comparison is less severe, but cycling remains more dangerous (assuming that my sample has any statistical validity).
Of course, I have no estimate for the rate of non-fatal injuries, and there are many many of these. I think we all know, that among dedicated riders eventually everybody goes down and does some damage.
09-30-17, 08:20 AM
#116
Senior Member
Thank you
I know this has been discussed before, but it came home last night. My two sons and their wives were discussing the bicycles my wife and I own as they came through the garage. They also commented on our physical condition, which is pretty good for our age (67 & 69). Not better than other cyclists our age, but much better than the average American. Then the "but" comments started and everything centered on safety on the bicycle. Neither the sons or the daughter-in-laws considered the dangers of road cycling being worth the good physical condition, especially since I have had a couple nasty crashes in the past few years. As vehicles blew past us on the Thanksgiving club ride today I thought about the conversation with the sons, but we kept pedaling and felt good when we finished.
Thank you for posting this, you make a VERY good point. I am looking for a bicycle friendly place to live.
Where I live cars dominate the road, and its crowded, I saw a 3 car and one cyclist accident yesterday.
I would like to find a cheap place to live where cars are,,frowned upon.
Retiring in a few years and need a safe place to live.
09-30-17, 06:36 PM
#117
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[QUOTE]The worst worst are also using their cell phones. These drivers need to be treated precisely like drunk drivers. There are growing stats to support this contention.
Almost got me the other day!
Almost got me the other day!
10-01-17, 01:48 PM
#118
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On July 24, 2013 I crashed and broke my neck. Two 5 hr. surgeries and 8 days later I was home with C1 & C2 fused. By November I was back on the bike. Still cycling and better than before. Also pretty fit for my 71 years. I'll take the risks.
10-01-17, 07:22 PM
#119
Senior Member
I got tboned by a car on June 3rd. I broke my ankle/tibia/fibia/shoulder. I took my first steps without help on August 2. First ride was August 19th. I'm more careful now, but I'm not going to stop riding. Life is full of risks.
10-03-17, 08:30 AM
#120
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These are difficult family discussions, and call for tact, understand and patience. However, they also call for a reminder that we all have to live our own lives. So the OP will want assuage his' sons' worries with practical info, and failing success there, might gently remind them to mind their own business.
As some poster named FBinNY said,
Exactly what am I alive for? Just to live more days? To get consistently sicker and frailer so I can spend more of my final days trapped in a bed, filling a bed pan and eating through a tube up my nose?
I ride because it makes me feel alive. I don’t ride crazily, I don’t push my limits, but I dearly love riding and it is important to me.
So long as I feel I can manage the risks, it is no one else’s business.
I buried my mother,. My father is ancient, and has survived numerous terrible medical incidents, and is still trying to live. The hardest part of his life is loneliness .... every single friend he has ever had is dead. He isn’t crying for more empty days just to have more empty days. He wants to fill his days doing stuff.
He knows he is leaving here eventually. Wen all are. He knows that what he does with the time remaining is All that matters ... not how much of it there is. After more than nine decades, he isn’t hurting for More days, but Better days.
I feel the same way.
I am not foolhardy, I don’t try death-defying stunts ... but I realize that if I don’t get a lot out of my life while I can, I will just have more regret later when I can’t. And as has been noted ... I could die getting out of bed. I could develop cancer, have a stroke, have another heart incident ... or get hit by lightning, or a car while walking.
I do not Want to die. I Want to Live. But “live” is an active, not a passive verb to me. I don’t just want to be alive, just drawing breath ... I want to be actively engaged in my life.
I’d say the OP needs to have a long talk with his children Not about the dangers of bike riding, but of the dangers of living in fear and living with the illusion that life is forever and death can be avoided.
Nothing is so sharpening as the understanding that every day might be the last. This isn’t a morbid thing ... it makes me appreciate each moment, as much as I can, of each day. I need to remember each day that the time I waste is gone forever .... and as I age and my capacities shrink, so too will my chances to enjoy life.
Life is a wonderful thing, but it only gets shorter. Ride your bike, skydive or mountain climb or whatever you want to do. We are all leaving here one way or another. make the time here worth the effort.
10-04-17, 04:26 AM
#121
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hey - how about virtual cycling - it's different from the old days of dumb trainers and staring at the brick wall. There's software and hardware that will simulate a ride - Wahoo Kickr, Tacx Neo - these are smart trainers. And the softwares - zwift and veloreality. Zwift is very intoxicating - you'll want to 'race' everytime someone goes by you. And veloreality allows you to ride indoor feeling you're outdoors already.
I've awaiting for my Kickr to arrive and will shortly provide how accurate these things are. You might get a workout without the dangers of cars and weather.
If it delivers then it's good to be in the 21st century.
I've awaiting for my Kickr to arrive and will shortly provide how accurate these things are. You might get a workout without the dangers of cars and weather.
If it delivers then it's good to be in the 21st century.
10-04-17, 08:09 AM
#122
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Great idea if you only ride for exercise .... riding a modern, high-tech trainer looks like a lot of fun... the bikes tilt to approximate climbing and descending, you can program in actual roads (Mont Ventoux? Why not?) and you can watch TV and listen to music while being either warm or cool , and sheltered from the weather.
However it has nothing whatsoever to do with bicycling.
The porn/actual partner comparison is not absolutely accurate .... but if Cycling is your thing, exercising on a machine which in some way resembles a bicycle is not not your thing. Or at least, not at all the Same thing.
I happen to like both, but they are no more interchangeable than vacuuming a rug and mowing the lawn. Each has its purpose and its associated implement, and neither is interchangeable in any aspect.
EDIT: If I wasn't spending my spare cash on another bike, i would get one of those ... so please let us know hwo it works in real life.
However it has nothing whatsoever to do with bicycling.
The porn/actual partner comparison is not absolutely accurate .... but if Cycling is your thing, exercising on a machine which in some way resembles a bicycle is not not your thing. Or at least, not at all the Same thing.
I happen to like both, but they are no more interchangeable than vacuuming a rug and mowing the lawn. Each has its purpose and its associated implement, and neither is interchangeable in any aspect.
EDIT: If I wasn't spending my spare cash on another bike, i would get one of those ... so please let us know hwo it works in real life.
10-04-17, 08:20 AM
#123
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10-04-17, 09:01 AM
#124
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10-04-17, 09:20 AM
#125
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tact my buttocks. If I had kids and they told me to stop living, the falling out of bed statistic is exactly the place I’d start.
As some poster named FBinNY said,
To me it touches on quality of life and nothing else.
Exactly what am I alive for? Just to live more days? To get consistently sicker and frailer so I can spend more of my final days trapped in a bed, filling a bed pan and eating through a tube up my nose?
As some poster named FBinNY said,
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
This touches on a very fundamental philosophical issue. Namely how to balance increased short term risk vs. lowered long term risks..
This touches on a very fundamental philosophical issue. Namely how to balance increased short term risk vs. lowered long term risks..
Exactly what am I alive for? Just to live more days? To get consistently sicker and frailer so I can spend more of my final days trapped in a bed, filling a bed pan and eating through a tube up my nose?
Quality of life comes in on the "what you stand to gain" part. You could just use "years" there and we're already positive, but with improved life due to the better health it can only add to the balance.