Zaskar

I think I speak for the entire platoon when I say, we're going to need some specs here.

Eric F 

It's some variety of the Canyon Grail.

sarhog

It’s a stock Canyon Grail SLX8. It came with (and still has) a 42t chainring coupled to a 10-50 Eagle cassette and Eagle XO1 AXS derailleur. Force AXS shifters/brakes and stock DT Swiss GRC1400 wheels wearing Specialized Roubaix Pro 32mm tubeless tires.

Koyote

Yup, I get it. An 11sp or 12sp cassette with 11-32 cogs is actually fairly tight. If we didn't have such wicked winds (=simulated hills) around here, I could probably use something like that with a 1x, too.

msu2001la

AKA "Mullet drivetrain" - Road shifters up front with MTB derailleur/cassette in the rear.

That's a sweet looking bike. The 10-50 Eagle cassette with a 1x front has a 500% gear range, plus the fancy version is light (around 350g).
This is a bigger range (especially on the low end) than a standard road 2x setup.

For those wondering - it's 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50 so yes... two tooth gaps on the small half. Bigger jumps on the big half. It's not for everyone.
They even make a 10-52 (520%) if you want some extreme climbing gears.

waters60

Long way from corncob days😳

SoSmellyAir

Yes, having a large cog that is bigger than the brake rotor is always an interesting visual.

Does an Ultegra 11-speed 12-25 cassette count as a corncob or must one only have single tooth gaps to qualify?

seypat

That looks like a trash can lid.

Koyote

I ran a 12-23 cassette on my old nine speed bike, and some folks referred to that as a “corn cob.“

When some folks claim that one 1x drivetrains are lighter, I wonder if they’re considering the giant-ass cassettes that some people end up with.

Koyote

I ran a 12-23 cassette on my old nine speed bike, and some folks referred to that as a “corn cob.“ And it did not have one tooth steps.

When some folks claim that one 1x drivetrains are lighter, I wonder if they’re considering the giant-ass cassettes that some people end up with.

seypat

Through the 7-9 speed era, when Shimano had 2X and 3X systems within the same level, (105/600/Ultegra) I'd weigh each complete system. Everything down to the chainring bolts. If the 2X had to go 30T or bigger on the back to match the 3X range, it would be heavier than the 3X. In fact, a 1X version of the same system wasn't any lighter either. If you increased the range of the 3X by putting a smaller 3rd ring on the front, the weight difference would increase even more.

DaveSSS 

Most weight weenies make too big a deal about a 100 gram difference in weight. To figure the effect, take 100 and divide by total bike and rider weight, like 80,000. The percentage is 0.13%. how many people weigh themselves in 100 gram or quarter pound increments? How many carry a few thousand grams of excess weight?

I always thought the reason for 1X was to avoid chain drops, but then I was told that I'm wrong. I use a 10-36 12 speed cassette with a 46/30 crank to get a 0.83/1 low gear.for a 552% range, without all the big jumps between sprockets. I use cheap shimano grx-610 cranks that weighs about 100 grams more than the 810 hollowtech version.

msu2001la

Some of the cheaper big-range MTB cassettes do get very heavy, but on the high end - the SRAM Eagle XX1 10-50 cassette only weighs 363g. Compare to a high end narrow range 2x road cassette is at least 210g. So, maybe 150g more?

By the time you subtract the FD and one of the chainrings, it's basically a wash or slightly in favor of 1x.

bykemike 

Ok, how about 1 x 1 climbing? Does that count? I am always the last to the top and the last to the bottom but I am usually the only one at least.

For you WNC riders: Highest area, and then just north of the Linn Cove Viaduct, running 38 x 23 gearing, freewheel, no fixie thanks! Descending is just a coasting experience, can't hook up over 10 mph, no issue unless you need to get away from some hunting dogs or the occasional Elk.

I did the climb from the top of Town Mountain road to Craggy Gardens the same week these were taken, lots of fog and lots of climbing for me. Stopping to rest a lot got it done. The Parkway stays about a steady <7% but sometimes just doesn't quit.

Koyote

Right. And so why not just run 2x and get closer spacing with a better chainline? I've been running that on my gravel rig from the start, have ridden over plenty of rough stuff, and have never dropped a chain.

Eric F 

Regarding ranges of 1x vs. 2x, this is a handy calculator that will allow you to compare 2 different drivetrain configurations... Bicycle Gear Calculator

SoSmellyAir

After reading Koyote's post, I was going to chime in with a reference to Eric F's gravel bike from the So Cal forum, because the latter seems to have no problem riding gravel with a regular Ultegra (i.e., not GRX) RD. On the other hand, when I went 1x on my hybrid (which is only ridden on paved roads and MUPs), the chain would occasionally get pulled inwardly off the chain ring when it is on the largest cog, even though I had a chain line that bisects the cassette, so I had to add a chain keeper.

That is the one I use too; good reminder about the compare feature. which while not hidden is not the most obvious.

Koyote

I can't bother keeping track of all of the different variants, but my Ultegra 11sp RD has a clutch, which helps greatly with chain retention.

I'll also note that your chain retention problem probably comes from running 1x, which forces you into more extreme chainlines, at least some of the time, than would a 2x drivetrain. When that chain is at a more extreme angle, it seems to me that it's more likely to come off the chainring.

Eric F 

My gravel bike has older 11s Ultegra (6800) with a non-clutch RD. So far, I haven’t had an issue with the chain falling off, but I’m still fairly new to gravel riding. That said, my riding isn’t exactly smooth and mild.

tFUnK

bykemike Nice Capo. Now that's a dedicated climber setup. I didn't know they made SS freewheels in 28t (unless that's a road sprocket with spacers on a road wheel).

In my FGSS days 48x16 was a good puncher ratio for the city, while 44x17 got me up most climbs. I am very proud to have been able to slowly grind my way up Hwy 9 from downtown Saratoga to the Gap (for the Bay Area folks) on a 46x16 fixed gear once, 12 years ago. Can't imagine doing that now.

Koyote

Yep, I’ve done plenty of rough riding on a 105 setup which has no clutch on the rear derailleur. Can’t recall ever losing a chain on that bike, either. The main benefit of the clutch, from what I can tell, is actually that it prevents the chain from slapping against the chainstay.

bykemike 

You got me thinking about the gearing...I pulled out my climbing set up for the Capo and I was using 38/23. So much for memory! I was going to attempt fabricating a lower geared White freewheel by welding a larger sprocket on top of the 23 (the largest one I have found so far) but I was concerned about it being just a shade off center. All in all the 38/23 ratio would handle the climbs pretty well. I wouldn't want to go much steeper that 7% though.

msu2001la

Clutched RD's provide better chain retention and reduce chain slap.
Narrow/wide front rings provide better chain retention than shiftable front rings.
1x systems also allow for larger rear tire clearances, and have less things for mud to get gummed up in.
Shifting a 1x drivetrain is more simple, which is beneficial when navigating difficult terrain.

Of course some people prefer 2x for the tighter spacing and don't experience any of these problems (or don't feel a need to solve any of them, or find the trade off unacceptable). Shimano still makes front derailleurs for their MTB groupsets too and I know some XC MTB racers prefer to run 2x for the reasons you state. There doesn't have to be a one-size-fits-all solution here.

msu2001la

I raced CX on 2x10 105 for several years. I recall many dropped chains and mud/grass getting jammed up in my FD. I had to cover my chain stay with a rubber sleeve to prevent frame damage from chain slap. The FD placement limited my rear tire clearance to 35mm on that bike. I remember CX coaches specifically showing us techniques for running barriers/remounting that would limit chain drops because it was such a common problem back then.

Switching to 1x11 solved all of that for me.

PeteHski

Those cold winter evenings must have flown by.....