Broctoon

I have sometimes encountered a real problem with managing body heat when I ride up a steep, long climb and then descend down the other side. My ride last night was a good example. I went up a canyon about 8 miles, reaching the 8000 foot summit at dusk. This created a “perfect storm,” as my clothing was all damp from perspiration at the same time the temperature was quickly dropping and I was facing a fast descent.

I try to add layers, including a wind blocking jacket, but I sometimes get a nasty chill anyway. It’s very unpleasant, and sometimes I fear hypothermia is a real risk. In the case of last night’s ride, I added two layers on my arms and torso, plus a Merino wool beanie cap under my helmet (legs remained bare). I still couldn’t bring myself to bomb down the canyon, so I rode the brakes to keep my speed around 10 MPH, thereby minimizing the wind blowing over me. I also kept my legs spinning, rapidly arched and curved my back, shrugged my shoulders, sang loudly… anything I could think of to keep blood flowing. I kept the jacket and jersey unzipped halfway to allow limited airflow for drying, even though I wanted to zip everything up. It worked out… nobody died. But I wish I could find a better strategy for these situations.

A little more background:

- I am wearing high performance cycling attire, not cotton street clothes. Last night I started with a Rapha short sleeve jersey, then added a Pearl Izumi long sleeve jersey and a 7Mesh wind stopper jacket. I’ve tried other combinations too. Fall 2021 I found myself on rolling hills in the middle of the night during a long relay, and the temperature dropped into the 30s. I had a really good insulated cycling jacket, but I couldn’t remove and re-don it every time the terrain transitioned between climbing and descending, so I remained wet and therefore cold.

- On flat terrain I don’t have a problem, as I can manage my level of exertion to stay comfortable. It’s just when hills prevent the ideal output.

I have wondered if I should shed the damp layer before adding others. I suspect that would be effective. It’s a hard thing to bring myself to do when I’ve waited too long and I’m already starting to feel chilled—I’d have to discipline myself and keep the presence of mind, because in those moments all I want is to layer up quickly! I’m also considering hopping off the bike and walking the last quarter mile or so up a climb, to let my perspiration stop and my clothes begin to dry before I have to descend.

What methods have you used? Are people just more fit than me and more acclimatized to changing temps? I’m a 53 year old man in excellent health. There is no fat on my arms or legs, though I have a bit of a belly. I have an estimated V02 max of around 45, if that means anything, and I’ve always had remarkably low blood pressure. Perhaps I just need to be wiser with regard to timing for my hilly rides.

I’d love to read your suggestions.

big john

You're doing about everything that I could recommend. I have similar experiences and the only thing that makes a difference for me is the right jersey/base layer combination which allows the sweat to evaporate. If I'm too warm on the climb I will be too wet when the descent starts.

If it's going to be freezing on a long descent I sometimes take a cheap hooded windbreaker which rolls up and fits into a pocket. I put that over the vest as a 4th layer and second layer on my head. It helps a lot.

I do like having leg warmers on long chilly descents, even the thin Lycra ones.

rsbob 

My girlfriend and I used to run up a 1500 foot climb in a mile regularly after work. When we got to the top we were both soaking wet. We each carried a small fanny pack with dry clothes for a quick change for the return down at sunset. Worked like a charm.

Initially we would descend (too steep to run) wearing our wet clothes and would become thoroughly chilled. I don’t know of any cycling clothing that once wet will keep you warm on a long fast descent. People claim wool, but you tried that.

waters60

Stop before reaching the top and shed any damp base layers and put on something dry. A down vest packs very small and over your dry layer with a windproof layer should keep your core warm. A helmet liner also as there is considerable heat loss from the head.
It is a very similar situation to back country skiing. Anticipate the top of your climb and change before then. It will give you time to warm up again.

waters60

Stop before reaching the top and shed any damp base layers and put on something dry. A down vest packs very small and over your dry layer with a windproof layer should keep your core warm. A helmet liner also as there is considerable heat loss from the head.
It is a very similar situation to back country skiing. Anticipate the top of your climb and change before then. It will give you time to warm up again.

shelbyfv

I'd try zipping up the outer layer to block the wind and not worry about drying. Doesn't the drying of clothes pull heat from the body? Newspaper under the jersey is a time honored and IME useful addition.

eduskator

I usually carry a windproof layer in one of my pocket when I know temperature is going to drop significantly during / at the end of my ride and endure the fact that I am wet. Other option is to carry another jersey and swap once you're at the top.

You didn't talk about the ambient temperature during your ride, but I assume it is or can get colder than 20c-25c (68f-77f)?

MoAlpha

Been there. Sounds like you're doing the right things. All I can suggest is to make sure you're using a very good base layer, which should insulate fairly well, even when damp. I have found that those with some texture, waffling or whatever, capture a layer of air and insulate better, while not being hot. I also like to have all layers close fitting to prevent any air movement. Changing shirts at the top of a climb might help, but I wouldn't want to do it.

Someone is going to mention wool, which, having spent some of my wettest and unhappiest nights at sea in it, I'm not overly fond of. It's better than low-quality synthetic, but it loves water and dries as slowly as cotton. I used to use it for its low stank factor when I had to live in the same shirt for days, but good synthetics are now better in my experience.

Yes, hypothermia is a real risk and the VO2max and BP don't figure.

indyfabz

Wear a vest. Unzip it fully for the climb. Zip it up for the descent.

indyfabz

So it’s not me. My Rapha wool base layer, which I love, does dry very slowly, even though it’s pretty thin. I mostly take it on tour because I often start days early, when it can be chilly. Even when I hang it up in camp on a nice day it still takes longer to dry than you think it would.

alcjphil

At 10 mph it will take 3 times as long to reach the bottom than if you were doing 30 mph. Maybe you should descend faster

indyfabz

Just don’t use the Sunday circular.

MoAlpha

Merino is lovely stuff and better for the planet, but has its drawbacks.

big john

Wind chill factor gets worse. I'd say it depends on how long the descent is. One of the bad ones I did saw the temperature drop so the little rivlets I splashed through on the way up had frozen solid by the time I came back down. I actually turned around a few times and went back up a short way to generate some heat.

I did a 20 mile descent when it was 22 degrees at the top and I was fine with 4 layers including a Windstopper vest with hooded nylon jacket over that.

I also have a Columbia ski jacket I have packed in a Camelbak but that's an extreme solution. When I did long climbs on the mtb with snow and ice I would bring Gore Tex ski gloves and Gore Tex socks and put them on at the top.

Trakhak

The change in conditions that you described is too extreme to expect the same outfit to work climbing and descending. Bring a bag containing a towel, windproof pants, and an appropriate jacket. Wear shorts and a jersey on the way up, towel off, and change to the warm clothes for the descent.

Carbonfiberboy 

The only wool I wear is socks. As you say, wool dries slowly, plus it can absorb and hold a lot of water. Only synthetic fibers. On a climb like that, if it's summer and I'm climbing in shorts and jersey, I'll add a Craft undershirt or just a hiking tee if it's warmer, plus leg warmers, arm warmers, a wind jacket and warmer gloves. If you're climbing multiple passes, it's worth it to stop and change at the bottom and top. For rides when it'll be really cold and possibly raining, one needs a little rucksack for the extra clothes. There's a well-known mountain ride here. One year it was 32° and raining at the summit, which no one expected. The life-saver was an RV parked at a turnout not too far down. Riders were shaking so badly that there was no possibility of continuing. They warmed up in the RV and waited for a sag to show up. Close one.

GhostRider62

8,000 feet can be 25-32F temperature differential from the valley floor to the summit or pass or col as it may be. In dry areas like UT, radiation cooling can come on quickly af dusk. You were wet and descending in probably 40-50F at the top. You were way underdressed for the descent. There is a reason down puffies are popular out west on the divide race and trans am race. A simple solution would be to change your jersey before the summit and them put a puffy on for the descent, knee or legwarmers, and maybe a gator and beenie, depending on the temperatures.

In the second situation that you raised (race in 2021) where you sweated on climbs with temps in the 30F and froze on descents. Opposite problem sort of, you are in cool temps and regulating your body temperatures should not be too hard. You have to avoid overheating in the climbs and with temps in the 30's, unless there is a health issue, you were overdressed. Unzip your jersey completely if you feel you are about to sweat. Do not let perspiration soak your clothing in the cold.

Hypothermia is a real risk on an 8 mile descent. Been there. Coming over totowante pass in June at 11 pm ish, there was a momma grizzly and cubs at the summit, I was so scared to death that I did not dress up and lets' say I got cold. It was 26F. If I had my puffy, gator,merino jersey, merino base layer, and merino LS jersey, gloves, leg warmers, and beenie....I would not have had a problem and I was not wet, I climbed totowante pass in shorts and just my wool SS jersey and arm warmers because the body is generating so much heat on a climb, not a lot of clothing is needed. In relays or races, you have to figure how to quickly store your warm kit and be able to don and doff quickly. Wool isn't necessary. I prefer Yak but synthetics are fine, they just smell like hell on me after a couple days.

zandoval 

No comment...


Gilbert Sheldon

MoAlpha

I am old and degenerate enough to recognize that. It’s “Shelton” with a “t,” though.

big john

Nobody else around.

Brazosbynemo

Being in Texas right now your problem sounds so wonderful.

Broctoon

Lots of good suggestions and discussion here. Thank you, all.

That's a good idea. I have a thin insulated vest. Not down, probably polyfill. But it packs pretty small and would probably work well with a long sleeve jersey and windbreaker. I am really glad I thought to take a few extra layers yesterday, although I did several other things wrong. It could have been much worse.

When I started the climb, at about 5000 feet, it was 70 degrees Fahrenheit. At the top, just shy of 8000 feet, it had dropped to 46 degrees.

I wish I could have gone much faster, but the wind makes a huge difference. Even at 20 MPH, I'm afraid I would have been too chilled. I felt that the amount of time spent outside was not as big a concern as wind chill. Someone said I should have zipped up all the way and not worried about ventilation to dry me. That might be true. I was experimenting to see what works best, and thinking about the longer term implications, as I had about 10 miles of steep descent ahead of me, and that's just to the mouth of the canyon. Once I got back into town where it's warmer, I still had another six miles or so of level to slightly downhill terrain to my destination, so I didn't want to stay damp any longer than necessary. Oh, also, on much of the descent the road conditions were terrible, and I had an inadequate headlight, so even if temperature were not a factor, I would not have wanted to travel much faster.

Indeed it can. I'm learning to respect the mountains and go prepared. I recall some motorcycle trips in high country when I got colder than probably any other time in my life. At least with a motorcycle you don't perspire, you can carry lots of extra stuff, and you can pull over and hug your engine or exhaust. (Seriously. I've done this.) On the other hand, the aforementioned wind chill is significant at 60 MPH.

Here's the rest of the story from last night. I had planned to ride down the canyon and across the city to a train station, where I could catch a train back to my town about 60 miles away. I had to be at the station no later than 10:15 to get the last train of the night. I didn't get there in time, so I had to make the call of shame and ask my dear wife to pick me up. I waited in a convenience store and sipped hot chocolate for an hour until she arrived. (I don't know why she acts concerned when I start planning one of my adventures. Like I said, no one died.)

A few people mentioned base layers (as a way to reduce sweat buildup). That's something I've never used. Not on warm days, anyway. When riding in the winter, sub-40 degree days, I usually wear a RedRam brand Merino wool top and often bottom as well, under whatever else seems appropriate. I don't think I want something that insulating in the summer, although it would have been awfully nice to have along when I reached the summit yesterday. What are you guys using for warm day base layers?

big john

I have a thin sleeveless Pearl Izumi base layer which is my favorite. I can wear it into the 60s with a light jersey and with a heavier jersey for colder days. I also have a Gore Bike Wear jersey which is stretchy but tight and also works as a base layer for colder days.

Sometimes if it's a colder ride I will just wear one of my summer jerseys under a cold weather jersey.

I never use a base layer in warm weather and when I was working guys would tell me to try a tee shirt under my work shirt when it was hot but I couldn't stand it.

I sweat buckets when I climb, I sweat when I look at the bike. I always get wet while riding but I can't climb or ride hard into a cold wind without coverage up top. I need at least a base plus a jersey to work hard in a cold wind.

GhostRider62

Control of sweating is the key to not getting chilled in the mountains if I recall my thermal physics, the latent heat of evaporization is 550 cals/gram of water. I don't buy the wicking marketing. When you sweat and when the moisture evaporates on your skin or on the plastic fabric next to it, you will be cooled. A base layer on a 45F descent ain't doing squat to keep you warm. Keeping your jacket unzipped on the descent was a mistake. If you are wet, you need to minimize evaporation. Keep the jacket zipped if you are forced to descent wet. Airflow thru the jacket just pulls an incredible about of heat out of your torso.

Climbing in the sun thru heat soaked valleys and then turning around at sunset requires a device on your bike to carry clothing.

What type of bag are you using to carry the required extra clothing? What kind of lights were you using? Turning around at dusk, racing to a train station,

eduskator

70f when you started your ride and 46f at the top, there isn't much you can do aside from carrying extra layers. At 46f, I would carry a thermal and windproof layer for the descent.