jeneralist 

Hey all --

Those who started on this forum in the last year or two may not recognize me. I started riding in 2009, started posting in 2010, dropped 65+ pounds, and worked my way up from sucking wind on a flat 8 mile commute to doing centuries and building my vacations around touring.

Something happened one day at the end of December. I was at work, doing my normal work-day thing, and in the course of a few hours both of my knees -- my strong and steady adventure companions to that point -- both swelled up and made it clear they Did Not Want To Bend. Sitting down? A problem. Getting up again? A really big problem. Walking gave me an ache, and stairs became mountains, traversed one leg at a time, toddler-style.

I've seen my doctor and I'm going to physical therapy. The diagnosis I'm getting is that I've got a bit of arthritis in the knees -- normally not too big a problem -- but with enough swelling and inflammation that my quads are going on strike. Quads are important to stabilize the kneecap, and, of course, to pedal the bike!

So I'm taking my anti-inflammatory medicine and doing my PT exercises and icing my knees and all that good stuff. The time I've been feeling my best has been when I've been on a stationary bike, either at the PT office or at home. So today, after getting clearance, I decided to try a bike commute. Of course, I didn't dare commute *to* work -- what if my knees gave out and I couldn't walk? Instead, I took the bike with me on the train into downtown, and rode 8 miles along flat, riverside multi-use pathways home.

The good news is, I was out in the springtime. The cherry and magnolia trees were blooming; rowers were out on the river; and all in all it was a great day to be on the bike.

The bad news? Every little rise felt like a huge hill. I had to use my granny gears on what I think of as little rises in the path -- I made sure my route avoided real hills as much as possible. I got home, I iced my knees, I took a nap -- and now, I need to use my arms to push myself out of a chair. I'll feel somewhat better tomorrow, I expect, but I'm a long way from right.

I feel like I'm back to where I was 6 years ago, but now I'm afraid I'm losing the strength and the resilience I had back then that let me become a long-distance hill-climbing 'Theena.

Words of encouragement welcomed!

10 Wheels

Stay in the granny gear most of the time.

Johnny Mullet

Slow and steady wins the race! Hope you have a full recovery in a short period of time.

skidder

Would changing the type of bicycle you ride help? I'm assume have a drop-bar-type bicycle, how about changing to a more upright style. Try and find a cheap used beach cruiser and see if that helps; if it does, then you might want to invest in a good multigeared cruiser or fitness bicycle. Just a suggestion . . .

Edit: Also try a lower gear so you're 'spinning' rather than 'mashing'. That'll help reduce forces on your knees/legs.

Dave Cutter

Since this was posted in Clydesdale's/Athena's..... I will assume that means your struggle with weight control continues?

I know my struggle with weight continues. We ALL have our demons. Some of us battle the demons till the day we die... some just give up and just let the demons kill us off. The other day I found myself clawing at my shirt pocket.... and I haven't smoked for several years. The addictive behavior isn't just a choice... it's encoded in our DNA. Humans are among the mammals that crave.

As cyclists... we are so lucky to have a passion and a sport that by itself can serve as a reminder for us to get and/or keep our body in shape.

You are so very lucky all you suffered was swollen knees instead of..... something more permanently disabling. Spring is here! It won't take long to get yourself back to where you were. You have not stood still... no time has been wasted. You'll be fine. Find a new diet (a healthy one) and get back into shape.

BigMo59

I have an over extended ACL according to the ortho doc. He told me that swimming was the best therapy and bicycling was second best to relieve the knee of inflammation. So it sounds like your doing the right things. Keep after it and it will get better!

Dave Cutter

I once had a Doctor suggest swimming for therapy. I thought about it and took it as a recommendation to take up water sports. By the time I arrived home.... I told my wife that I thought the Doctor was hinting that I should buy a boat.

FrenchFit 

Listen to your body, it' a pretty smart machine. Nothing wrong with changing your approach to fitness. This seems like the second post I've made on this subject in so many days, but: To address my wife's knee problems she rode a crank forward bike. I've ridden the bike on a few 30m roundtrips and it's true most of the stress seems to be upper quad and core. (and seat). Lots of fun, though not that great for climbing hills.

Personally, I think the best argument for owning a few different different geo bikes is to avoid overusing the same muscles and joints. So, n+1 baby.

Deal4Fuji

If you have to eventually look to knee replacement surgery, it's come a long way. My brother had replacement surgery a year ago and he's hiking and biking really well with little pain and no complications.

tmac100

Try various things to see what works for you!

i have a fused RH ankle and some soreness (arthritis??) in my RH knee, but yet I can do a tour in Australia of 2600 km in a month! Mind you when my body says: STOP and REST! I do so. But then continue the next day until another "message".

I am almost 68 y.o and have been an insulin dependent diabetic since 1964. Hey, those numbers are correct! My body talks to me and I listen! So far, so good!

Listen to your body and try different "things". But listen...

jeneralist 

Thanks for the kind words. Dave, so far I haven't regained more than my usual winter; but now that spring is coming, I really want to find a way to keep moving. I'm afraid that if I don't stay active, not only will my knees never talk to me again, but I'll also balloon up larger than I was to start with.

FrenchFit, I gotta say that the n+1 answer is making me smile. In my living room right now I'm looking at my "city"/hybrid style bike -- currently on a stand so I can use it as a stationary; my touring bike, again with a more upright riding posture; my husband's sport hybrid; and his titanium drop-bar machine. We're also keeping a hybrid handy for a friend when she comes to visit -- so that's 5 bikes in my living room right now. There's room for a 6th...

Deal4Fuji, I've got a ways to go, I think, before we're talking joint replacement. But it's good to know that they're getting better with that.
Tmac, you're giving me hope. Thank you.

Black wallnut 

Jeneralist I hope you find a combination that works for you and gets you back on the bike. It sounds like riding 8 miles on the path did you some good.

cyclist2000

Have you had your knees x-ray and MRI'd?

My story: about 10 years ago I went to a doctor about my knees, I couldn't run and walking or stairs were painful, this doctor said that I had arthritis. My spouse told me to a friend for a recommendation for a different doctor, he was an orthopedic oncologist. He recommended the doctor that worked on his knees. When I saw this orthopedist I got an x-ray before seeing anyone. He saw a shadow on the x-ray, then he had me get an MRI. He found a bone spur in my knee from the arthritis. I had the bone spur removed and the knee flushed out and it still feels good.

So make sure you are seeing a orthopedist.

Good luck, hope you get back to where you were soon.

Hot Potato

Well, cycling is generally kind on knees and good for rehab - once things have calmed down. Cycling circulates joint fluids, which provides benefit to joint areas with poor blood supply like cartilage. But after a certain age, when things hurt it is because they are being injured instead of being conditioned into a stronger state. Rest those knees, take anti inflammatory drugs if you can, then ease back into it if the swelling and pain subside. Listen to your doctor. If your knee cartilage is gone, well, it will be tough going. If it's just an effusion, it will calm down.


I am 20 years out from a nasty, joint surface trashing and devastating tibial plateau fracture. Cycling has postponed the inevitable in that knee, but when it swells I back off.

TrojanHorse

Hey Jen - I got hit by a car 17 years ago and my right knee is ruined. 2 surgeries so far and an inevitable replacement are in order, along with various affiliated injuries to the opposite foot (3 surgeries for the lis franc injury, and another for the ankle...), so I feel your pain, literally.

I sprained the dickens out of my GOOD ankle in November. Took almost 2 months off for healing and then Christmas vacation and my cycling fitness apparently migrated south. It's a process. Some people can take a year off and pick up where they left off, that's not me. It sounds like you're in the throes of dealing with that as well. Just give it time and don't over do anything and you'll probably be back to "fine" in no time at all. Oh, and the PT and icing are probably excellent as well. If you have to walk your bike up a hill or two, big whoop di doo, your ego will survive.

If it's any consolation, your previous stories about the Bon ton roulet really make me want to do that ride. Heal up!

BadBurrito

my thoughts are that if the knees are inflamed, then you need to give them a rest for awhile, and for me, the older I get the longer that takes (I'm 62). when I had trouble with my heel (barely able to walk at all).

We as bikers tend to get wrapped up in the quantity of biking- more miles, faster, more hills, and the flip side is we don't actually get enough rest. Particularly as we get older.

Anyway, I gave the bike a rest for months, and joined the Y, and went swimming - doing laps. Really helped rest the inflamed heel I had, helped my upper body, increased my wind, and generally improved my attitude. I'm back riding now. anxious for summer weather. And I still swim twice a week - I've become addicted to doing laps. Actually I think the heel issue, well it turns out is was a good thing.

You could look at your knee issue as an opportunity to workout other parts while the knees rest.

just my 2 cents

Divtos

Continuing to bike as you can, continue with PT, try swimming. Id also get a second opinion just to make sure nothing is being missed. It certainly sounds like a systemic issue rather than a "knees issue" since it effected both knees at the same time. Im not so sure about icing anymore, it brings down swelling but it also slows circulation and lowers the viscocity of the joints lubrication. Step up your diet- every pound off your body is like 5 to your knees. At least thats what my doc told me. My wife swears by tumeric. Its supposed to be an anti-inflammatory and she swears it helps her knees. I like fish oil and feel they help me. Medically Ive had knee surgery and synvisc injections. I recommend the injections but not the surgery. My MD prescribes me a topical NSAID called PENNSAID. Advil can be hard on your stomach and this has helped me to avoid it.
Finally: The best results I ever see is from hard headed ****s that refuse to accept no for an answer. You can rest for an immediate issue but don't let that go on. Keep ****ing moving and don't take **** from anyone who tells you otherwise ;-)

jeneralist 

X-rays, yes; MRI, no. There's not a lot of reason to think that I've torn anything, so I'm doing PT first; if I don't get better as expected, then maybe an MRI.

GravelMN

I'm normally not much on special diets that claim to do this or that, but due to lingering heart problems, a few months ago I switched to an anti-inflammatory nutrition program. Gotta say I've become a believer. I've got a history of heart attacks with stents and was having twinges and aches that were diagnosed as angina with some non-specific "shadowing" on my cardiac stress test. Not enough to warrant an angiogram but I went on two anti-anginals and Cardiazem. After two months on the anti-inflammatory eating plan, I'm down to the occasional use of one anti-anginal. An unexpected side benefit is that 90% of my aches and pains are gone. I've got a history of knee and back injuries and was diagnosed with early arthritis of my hands but now my joints are nearly pain free, even after a heavy workout or long day on my feet. Another bonus is that I dropped 18 pounds without really trying.

I've done low-carb and paleo type nutrition in the past and the anti-inflammatory diet has some similarities but focuses more on reducing inflammation promoting foods while increasing the consumption of foods with anti-inflammatory properties.

I'm not suggesting that this is a cure for your problem, but anything that helps to reduce inflammation should augment anything your doctor and therapist are doing for you. (Insert mandatory disclaimer to check with your doctor before making significant changes in your diet)

indyfabz

At the risk of playing doctor, has anyone considered Pseudogout?:

Pseudogout: Crystals, Treatment, Pain, Symptoms, Arthritis

I had horrible swelling, pain and stiffness in one of my knees after a hard ride. I went to Rothman. The ortho I saw drained some fluid from my knee, tested and found the crystals mentioned in the above link.

Hope you get better soon.

BTW...I took a four-day over Easter weekend that included two nights at Cape Henlopen State Park near Lewes, DE. The place is really nice and especially good if you have children who bike since there are several rideable trails. I had always wanted to go but getting a campground reservation on the weekend is extremely difficult much of the year. Even on Easter weekend the place was probably 2/3 full. In the summer months, weekends are booked up months in advance.

Ursa Minor

The thing that strikes me about the original post is the speed of the onset. Did you do anything new in the days prior like change meds?
I had bad knee reaction to an antibiotic ciprofloxinane (sp?). Had to use a cane for 3 weeks and no biking. Anyway best of luck to you.

Charlie

cyclist2000

I didn't tear anything in my knee that time. I had a karate injury in 1980, and it was repaired in 1980. This was 20 years later, no injuries, just couldn't run or walk without lots of pain.

The way my doctor explained it to me was that I have arthritis in that knee and calcium builds up on the lower front edge of my knee cap. For some reason that bit of calcium broke off and that is the bone spur. Its not the bone but it is the arthritis calcium build up. My bone spur was the size of a postage stamp and was floating around my knee causing pain when I moved my knee. So I didn't tear anything or do any damage it was just due to the arthritis build up and some movement that broke it loose.

Well I just wanted to relate what happened to me and what made my knee better. I'm not a doctor and I don't think anyone should take any medical advice that I give, this has been my experience with my knee pain.

I hope you are able to start putting on the mega miles again soon.

Best wishes.

Don

eastbay71

Hi [MENTION=178719]jeneralist[/MENTION],

I went through a similar trial a few years ago. I am an avid snowboarder. All my other physical activities are in support of snowboarding, cycling included. My job is relatively sedentary so I run to stay in shape. I was runnning about 25 miles a week, usually running 8-12 miles one morning on the weekend and running at least 3 miles a day. I started to train for a half marathon doing intervals and hills in October of 2012. I started having pain in the bottom of my feet but pushed through it because it was a destination event at IronMan in Hilo, Hawaii and I wanted to do well. By the time the event rolled around I had to cut it back to a 10K. I saw my doctor right after the trip, I had reached a point where I could barely walk because my left foot's arch had swollen so badly. I was diagnosed with severe possibly chronic plantar fasciitus. I had to take off the whole snowboarding season and was told to do nothing but swim for at least 6 months. It ended up taking over a year to heal.
Listen to your body and your doctor! Take the time off that you need and don't worry about lost fitness or goals you had set. If I had listened to my body right away my recovery time would have been much shorter. Hang in there you will get through this! I was back on my snowboard for the 2013/14 season and I started running again last year.

dvdslw

If you have insurance to cover an mri, get it done. It will take all the guess work out of your scenario and you'll have a proper diagnosis. I had one done on my left knee years ago when I tore my meniscus and they said either surgery to repair or wait and see. I decided to wait and when the swelling went down and my ability to walk somewhat normally again returned I went out and bought a road bike. That was the best thing I ever did, three years later and 60lbs less my knees haven't felt this good in a decade.

RubeRad

encouragement, encouragement, ...

What a bummer to hear that knees are keeping you off the bike!

Don't fret that you're slower than others, or slower than your previous self. You're at where you're at, it is what it is, you do what you can. I would talk to the dr and pt about cycling, maybe they can help you set goals/schedules for how much time you should spend on the bike, how hard you should work at it. You gotta make sure you don't injure yourself more!

If you have so many bikes already in the living room, you're probably experienced enough to have this covered, but just in case... make sure your bikes are well-fitted. Seat height in particular can affect knees. Also, the worst knee pain I ever had from cycling was due to forcing my heels outward on a hard ride chasing some fitter friends. That's how I discovered I need pedal extenders because of my duck feet. Turns out skeletons don't like being twisted and stressed out of their natural shape! Fortunately that was just a one-ride issue, and rest made it all better.

Keep working at it (and resting at it, as appropriate)!