burnfingers

So I've been looking for a new restoration project for a few weeks, came across a very non-descriptive listing on Craigslist for a 27" road bike; All it said was that it was a worn but straight bike, that they didn't know what it was, and that the seller thought it was French. Being curious and/or bored, I decided to drop by and take a look this afternoon. This is what I found:

burnfingers

BB is stamped EDA with the serial # E04480
Normandy HF hubs
Suntour NSL
Suntour VX
Mafac centerpull and lever
Simplex DT shift levers (suspected non-original, DT has a stain from a different clamp and the shifters have tensioners for a different setup)
CYCLO crankset (?) (it is a double, very large rings)
Sova wingnuts
ATAX stem "made in France" (possibly newer, doesn't seem as aged as the frame?)
possibly 70's?
very light frame
some fork damage

Got it for $40. If it really is french, my first guess is Mercier based on the EDA BB and those lugs... Thoughts, anyone?

gbi

Those hubs look to be earlier than 1970's.

juvela

machine a bit earlier than '70's. chainset, brakeset, wheels, headset & bar appear to be original to the bicycle. stem, front derailleur, rear derailleur and shift levers are all newer than bicycle.

identification: cycle definitely french. nothing present to indicate any specific make. latest it could possibly be is about 1967.

damage: there is damage to fork. examine closely photo nr. 4 in post nr. 1. note the gap at front of the fork crown race vs the same gap at the rear of the fork crown race. bike has been ridden off curbs, steps or through numerous pot holes which have "sagged" or "softened" the blades forward. fork needs to be straightened by someone knowledgeable with access to a fork jig. alternately, it should be replaced. machine should not be ridden without taking one of these two courses.

burnfingers

@ gbi, now that you call attention to it, they do rather look like 60s Normandy hubs don't they?
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...lloy-rims.html


@ juvela, interesting, good info. The difference in the gap at the crown really stands out doesn't it? I figured it'd have to be replaced when I first saw it, wasn't aware that could be straightened on a jig. is metal fatigue a worry if I go that route?

juvela

wrt fork: there is both deformation of blades and of steerer at its lower end. it is the steerer deformation that causes the visible misalignment at the fork crown race. the frame is likely constructed with a nervor steerer. i have found through years of experience of working on ordinary quality french cycles that the metal in these if of a poor grade. when you withdraw fork from frame you will likely find this name stamped into steerer.

rather than have fork straightened you could check a local junkyard or bicycle co-op to find another similar french fork without damage.

gbi

If those are Normandy hubs, and they're in good condition, they're probable worth at least what you paid for the bike. I do not know what marque your bike may be. I agree with juvela, that it's most likely French. You may want to look at the tontonvelo forum. I've seen bikes on there from the 50's and 60's, and plenty of smaller obscure French marques, some with similarities to your bike.

juvela

wrt the early type normandy sport hubs -

have repacked quite a few over the years and have found the finish and durability of the cones to be somewhat better than that of the later examples.

identification -

agree with burnfingers that mercier is a good candidate. the combination of head lugs, crown and seat stay treatment are all consistent with base model mercier models. there is nothing on the frame however that was not available to all contructors, no unique feature that clearly marks it as any one marque. have not previously seen a mercier with a curved brake bridge but this could easily be due to the time of manufacture.

fork -

if you replace suggest you cut up old one prior to binning so that no one will be tempted to place it into use.

burnfingers

That is one bent fork tube! Note that there is a flat side on the threads near the end of the tube, might look a little odd in the pic. All raceways are in outstanding condition, good chrome too which is surprising given its age. Spindle and cups are stamped RFG with a large C below. There is "60" stamped on the side of the lower head tube lug. The toothed spacer that locks the baring cap in place is stamped REWAX. Spindle and fork both had loose barings btw, further indication of pre-70s if any was needed. also, super brittle paint.




This may be a semi unique feature to help ID the frame, you don't see many brazed on cable guides like this. I've found several mercier's with this feature (which is only on the top tube) but they have the cable stop and guide perfectly on the side of the tube (3 o'clock) while this one is at about 1 o'clock.

juvela

the flat on the steerer is the standard french way of doing things.

you are fortunate to have an rfg bb. have found their parts of hold up much better than the more commonly seen bardon black oxide sets.

the "60" refers to an angle; is neither a date nor model nr.

REWAX is a bardon name.

steerer appears eminently straightenable. it is fortunate that it is a shallow bow rather than a kink. but then of course there are the blades...

burnfingers

About the blades, I'm not seeing any obvious signs of damage on them (no wrinkled or stretched paint as on the head tube, no bends bulges or elbows, etc). What leads you to believe they are damaged? Suggestions on determining if they are damaged? Keep in mine the only pic I have up of the fork in the frame is one with the bent tube threaded in, setting the fork at a weird angle. When set flat in the frame with no barings/cap to eliminate the bent tube issue, the dropout in the fork point almost perfectly down, if the blades were warped I'd expect them to be pointing noticeable forward? I'll get a flat pic posted as soon as I can




While looking at 60's bikes / frames trying to ID this one I've seen a number with similarly radical (imo) forks where the angle changes drastically in the lower third of the blade instead of more gradually, perhaps this was just a style we don't see very often?

juvela

thank you for the additional pictures burnfingers.

i did not see damage to the blades in the original images. you made a statement in post nr. 2 that there was fork damage. blades are shown well in photo nr. 4 of post nr. 2. yours are the eyes on the scene. if they look fine to you then they are fine. another error on my part.

burnfingers

ahh kk, wasn't sure if I was missing something or not. thanks for all the info to date, I'm not at all familiar with French bikes so it's invaluable to get input and thoughts on a badgeless project like this.

I've gotten so close looking at Merciers but they all either don't have the arched hanger you and gbi commented on or the cable guide I pointed out is at the 3 o'clock position instead of ~1 o'clock (and is commonly a single stamped piece instead of a separate stop and guide).

juvela

wrt identification -

it could well turn out to be one of the many hundreds of small marques produced in france. in the photos the bicycle's finish would appear to be original. does it look original to you in person? are there any "ghost images" where transfers formerly lived?

there used to be a company based in st. etienne which made machines under a great many names. they did contract manufacture. they built the cycles badged as roger riviere, olympique, the turin co-op of chicago, and probably hundreds of others. alas, i can never recall their name. it is likely well known to T-Mar, iab and others more knowledgeable than myself.

it is always conceivable that your mount is one of their fabrications.

---------------

the photo of the mixte you posted appears to be a 100 series machine from around 1970.

Daveyates

Looking at this bike i would guess it might be a late 50s to early 60s.
The curved brake bridge is a nice feature and also the extra braze-on for the rear brake cable.
This braze-on helps the cable to be more straight as it goes through the top tube cable guide.
The double chainrings is made by CYCLO and is the course version (Race)
The hubs appear to be early Normandy.
Nice M.A.F.A.C brake levers and Mafac Dural Forge calipers.
With some force the fork crown might be able to be straightened and the curve of the forks at the ends is very nice.
These old forks are made from strong metal and can handle being bent back and ridden again, well normally they can.
As you have guessed the stem is more modern.

It seems like a nice lower to middle range French bike that should ride well.

repechage

The fork is the big discount item for me. I like the frame and cranks. The Japanese derailleurs are of course replacements but will work very well.

noglider 

You'll have to replace the fork. Finding a French-threaded fork might be more trouble than it's worth, so you'd end up with an English-threaded fork. Then you'll need a different headset and maybe a new stem, too.

gbi

I think the company in st etienne that juvela was speaking about is Manufrance.

juvela

thank you gbi.

the last i heard of Manufrance they had gone through several changes/reorgs and ended up going bankrupt in 1985. does that agree with your information? am not sure it is the company i was thinking of but it certainly may well be.

burnfingers -

apologies again for my error on the blades.

you asked about their pattern and no one has yet responded. you asked about the curve all being at the distal end. yes, this is a bit of an olde pattern. one possible maker for these blades is souvexia.

have you followed gbi's suggestion to visit the tontonvelo forum? certainly looks like a good candidate for helpful information. thanks for this link gbi.

now that you have the headset and bottom bracket fittings out have you taken a gander inside the frame to see if there be any seamless tubes?

gbi

Juvela, you're welcome. I also heard that manufrance has gone through some tough times. I don't know if they are still in business. For some reason they came to my mind as the company you were thinking of, but I could be wrong, and like you said others may know better. I hope you enjoy the tontonvelo forum. You sometimes can see interesting and uncommon things on there, sort of like a living museum.

burnfingers

Just thought I'd update this thread, I've been slowly building her back up over the last 6 months or so and finally got to go on a shakedown ride today.



Shes got alloy rims and hubs (saving the Normandy hubs for later), a drillium crankest with an alloy spider and alloy rings (53-48, weird right?), a set of Mafac "Racer" centerpulls, Shimano 600 Arabesque shift levers, alloy cannondale bar-end levers, alloy seat post and bullhorns, a cool vintage French alloy stem that needs some polishing, the alloy Suntour VX and NSL derailleurs that were on it, etc. Basically, everything is aluminum other than the frame lol. The square taper spindle (using the original RFG cups) was a bit of a challenge to find, the one it has in right now works but I'm hunting for a better fit. Decided to go with a 50s/60s color and keep the cabling white, it's a cross between light pastel olive green and light sea-green, doesn't come though to well in the pics.

First impressions, the bike is unbelievably light. I'll weight it and post the number as soon as I get a chance, but I swear I've owned laptops that weighted more than this bike. The frame is also remarkable stiff for being so light, the first time I put a leg over I was half afraid I was going to plant the BB but it didn't even flex. It's also very tall with the bull-horns, I had a set of track drops I was going to use on it but I decided to try something new since my commuter has drops and I am on the tops 90% of the time.

It's been a long process and it still needs a lot of little detailing, polishing, better pegs, etc, but it's getting there

juvela

hello burnfingers,

thanks for the update.

project looking fine.

i like this colour. painted a number of frames in this shade. used a mercedes-benz colour called "caledonia green."

is the frame now the same colour as the building or is that just a photographic effect?

thanks again for this report.

burnfingers

Ha no, the buildings a much darker green. For some reason my phone falls flat on its face with this color, if it's sunny tomorrow I'll take a few shots with a real camera.

juvela

"sunny" in sw washington state in february?!?!

verily thou gesteth!

John Nolan 

What happened with the bent steerer tube?