backinthesaddle

I'm not sure whether to post this here or in utility cycling, hope I guessed right.

I've been looking a while now for a bike for a few functions.

1. Go to local stores and markets within a 1 mile radius from home in a very flat area and carry groceries home.
2. Occasional forays about 5-6 miles to shops, restaurants, theaters.
3. Very occasional commuting. This will be rare because I often work late and the route goes through some bad neighborhoods plus there's a terribly dangerous intersection with no alternate route.
4. Ride year round, including in rain.

Been looking for an IGH, with as many as possible of these coming stock with the bike:

disc brakes
fenders
rack
chainguard
generator + lights
flat pedals
step through frame
ability to pull a trailer on occasion

The Breezer Uptown 8 has almost everything on my checklist except the disc brakes. The shop owner assured me that the V brakes are more than adequate in rain. It was comfortable to ride and seems well made. One surprise was how easy it was to maneuver -- the shop owner attributed this to the 26" wheels vs. 700's on many of it's competitors -- I never heard about an advantage to 26" before

One other I've tried recently: Raleigh Detour Deluxe. Very similar, includes the disc brakes. Doesn't have a full chainguard or the stepthrough. I'll probably try it again, but right now the Breezer's coming in slightly higher on my personal preference chart.

I tried a bunch of other bikes quite a while back, then I got seriously ill and halted my search, now that I'm better I'm looking again and these are the latest candidates.

Just wondering what others think about the Breezer before I pull the trigger.

late

Joe Breeze makes good bikes.

I do have a suggestion or two. Forget the internal hub.
If you are a pulling a trailer, the limited number of gears
and the loss of efficiency, makes the traditional approach a little better.

I would also avoid disc brakes. V brakes work great, and they are cheaper, lighter and more reliable.

Do you really need a step-through frame? The traditional diamond frame has survived all these years because
it is strong and light.

If you can, the number of bikes you can chose from increases. You can look at touring bikes
like the Surly LHT, or cyclocross bikes. Both touring and cross bikes make great commuters.

ModoVincere

Personally, I've never tried a Breezer, but I don't recall ever hearing anything bad about them either. If the bike has the stuff you want, and its comfortable to ride, I say get it! As for the disk brakes versus the V brakes.....V brakes are fine.....you may have to give yourself an extra 5 ft of stopping distance in the wet, but that's really not a big deal and disk brakes can be a real pain in the ass if the rotor gets bent or you need to change out the pads.

PaulH

Much of the value of disk or drum brakes comes during winter riding in snowy places where they dump a lot of abrasive sand on the road. That sand can wear out your rims in a single winter -- not good with a dub dynamo, as a new wheel then has to be built. This should not be a factor in San Francisco, so I think you should buy the bike if it has everything else that you need. I pulled my daughter around for ten years, first in a trailer and then on a Trail-A-Bike, with an IGH and it worked fine in a much hillier place.

Paul

thdave

I wouldn't even look at the Detour for rides like yours. Such short rides, which I take all the time since I use my Breezer with pannier to shop locally, are lots of fun but require you to get a bike with a chainguard. It's a must have in my book.

Love my Breezer, by the way. The hub is great.

derail3

With you living in Alameda CA. I am going to suggest you check out a new bike store in San Francisco. They just opened a few months ago and specialies in Dutch bicycle. Most of there bike models would fit your wish list except disc brakes. They have drum brakes and do just as well in wet weather with less maintance. Some have so much rack or cargo space you will not need a trailer.

If you took the Alameda ferry over it would be a ten min walk from the SF ferry buliding. Be sure to call about store hous they are very limited.

My Dutch Bike.
575 Market St (cross st 2nd)
San Francisco Ca 94105
415-420-9649

www.mydutchbike.com

HardyWeinberg

My wife has been riding her breezer 8 spd instead of her jamis aurora lately even though she has shunted all the kid-trailering onto me.

The 8 spd is not a terrible gear-range for trailering, 300% range is comparable to a road double. My wife also uses her breezer and not the jamis for the trailer, when she does pull it.

And the IGH is just the best if you're pulling the trailer uphill and need to downshift, you are guaranteed a successful shift.

The stepthrough is great.

I agree that Vs are easier than discs.

edit: the breezer uptown is an awesome all-included package. The only thing we've done to my wife's is mount a bottle cage and that trailer hitch. It's always ready all the time.

noglider 

I saw one of these at the train station. Looks very good and well equipped.

JeremyZ

Let us know how you like it if you do buy one. I like the look of it too, but at $900, that is a lot of clams. There seem to be a lot of good options in that price range. I'm going to search around a bit for similar threads before I post one of my own.

LondonBridge

I had a Breezer Citizen for several years, which is a humbler version of this bike. In general, I was very satisfied with it. It had a 3 gear hub with the bottle-type dyno. It seemed relatively light for a utilitarian-type bicycle.

A few problems I had with it were:
-I kept breaking spokes (not sure if they were cheap or maladjusted).
-the axle-assembly for the pedals (bottom bracket?) began to make some noise. I took it to the LBS. He replaced it with a "more modern" design at a substantial cost for a student. (Caveat: This was in Denmark where everything is expensive and ideas about technology vary from in the US. Maybe the BB is considered ok in the US.)
-I did notice that I lost some nuts on the rack and fenders. (I'd suggest using some Loc-tite.)

To address one of the concerns raised, I thought the brakes worked fine, even in rainy conditions. It doesn't hurt to clean the rims from time to time, though.

Torrilin

Um... depends. A lot. Both on the rider's ability, and on the local situation. For me, no, a derailler gear system is not an advantage in pulling a trailer. I'm not very strong, I (like a lotta women) have some knee issues, and I live in a dense enough urban area that emergency stops are common. So internal gears are a real advantage in my situation.

Dunno about the OP, but yeah, some of us have arthritis or other serious joint issues. If I'm putting in serious saddle time *and* haven't been injured *and* the weather is good, I can use a diamond frame. Carefully. Getting cocky means I have stabbing pain in one hip joint or in the opposite knee, and I collapse in an overdramatic heap. I hope for the OP's sake that they're not in my position, coz my position sucks. Liking to ride in skirts is just as valid, and a lot more comfortable.

The penalty for a u frame vs a diamond frame on a Breezer is roughly 1lb, tops. The various other fiddly bits each contribute far more weight. I've loaded mine down with 55lbs, which is more than I can safely manhandle off-bike. No frame issues. Going to over 70lbs is probably doable in theory, but not in practice for me. Not without getting stronger. I don't think trying to go substantially over 80lbs is realistic, given the need for p-clamps and typical front rack load capacities.

Mine has been a fine bike for every distance I've ridden so far, which is up to 45 miles. It handles pretty well on dirt roads, not so sure about gravel or sand... I might want wider tires than stock if I were doing a lot of that. Most of the performance limitations are engine related. The bike also does a great job of letting me work around those... the stock gearing on the U frames gets pretty damn low, so a weaker rider has more incentive to work on spinning up hills (the diamond frames are geared slightly higher). It is better at descending under load. It's never done anything nasty unloaded, but the thing descends on rails when loaded.

The stock pedals kinda blow in rain since they get exceptionally slippery, even for platforms. I've put up with it for two summers of riding, and probably will for another, but it's high on the upgrade list. The suspension seatpost is a not so great idea, and I plan on upgrading to rigid. The suspension fork is a vaguely decent one, but the stock rigid fork is *really* nice. I've ridden both, and I am so glad I have the rigid. The stock saddle is relatively decent, but it's on the narrow side for my sit bones... so mine has a B-17S.

tatfiend 

backinthesaddle:

I would attribute the easy handling more to frame and fork geometry than wheel diameter. The Breezer uses relatively quick handling geometry compared to many cruiser or commuter bikes such as the Electra city bikes and many others. Many other bikes in this class are given geometry that favors stability and slow handling rather than maneuverability and relatively light & quick handling.

mtalinm

>>The shop owner assured me that the V brakes are more than adequate in rain.

In my experience, shop owners tell you that whatever they have in stock is adequate for your needs. I've had crummy experiences with V-brakes in the rain, but my drum/roller brakes work perfectly when it's wet.

noglider 

The first sentence may be true, but I'm surprised that V brakes didn't serve you well. If I were your mechanic, I would investigate and probably fix them.

backinthesaddle

Thanks, everyone for your comments and ideas.

Here's a few replies:

Yep, you nailed it. Besides all the warm fuzzies to save the planet by bike riding, I've got a seriously arthritic hip and simply can't walk around town any more. Fortunately I can ride the bike and live on a flat island with plenty of shops nearby, and that's my impetus for this purchase. I do fine on my racing frame for recreational riding, but around town ease of entry will make a big difference. Though surprisingly the step-through was not noticeably easier to get onto, but somehow was easier to get off.

Hadn't thought about the pedals in rain, sounds like a likely candidate for an eventual swapout. I'll probably replace the stock saddle with a saddle from the Finesse, at some additional cost. Suspension seatpost I'd do a "wait and see" on that. The one I looked at has a rigid fork, didn't even know the suspension fork is available, and I have no need for it.

Good to hear from a Breezer owner, glad you like it and are using it for some reasonably heavy loads.

Again, nice to hear from a happy Breezer owner.

I should do fine with a trailer on the flats around here. I may also defer on the trailer purchase and try panniers at first for grocery shopping, add the trailer later.

Thanks for the suggestion! I took a look at the website and those are some great practical bikes which is what I’m looking for. Especially, they come with full chainguards which is a rarity even in the growing U.S. niche for this type of bike. That’s one of the things I like about this Breezer model.

I may make a trip over to SF. Or maybe not, looks like the price point for most of the Dutch bikes is well over what the Uptown 8 costs.

That’s interesting. The shop owner’s comment seemed plausible because I’d ridden a Biachi Milano once and similarly enjoyed the handling, and that also had 26" wheels.

Anyway I was very happy with the ride and handling.


Well, I’m convinced now that I don’t need disc brakes. I’m not really familiar with drum/roller brakes, though I see that the Dutch bikes almost all have them so they must be practical. But the consensus seems to be I should be OK with the V-brakes, though mtalinm would disagree.

Again, thanks all.

And thanks that no one pointed out that according to my post title I tested an Uptwon 8, which I guess is a cheap knockoff of the Breezer Uptown 8

tatfiend 

Ass far as the V brakes I know it does not rain too much in Alameda. However most rim brakes can be improved for both wet and dry riding with the addition of Kool Stop pads though I have read complaints of the Salmon ones squealing excessively on many V brakes.

Torrilin

It ain't bad for distances either . Generally I'm finding when I go "omg, I can't", that my bike can do whatever it is just fine. The engine? Needs work. And mostly the work I need to do is stuff I'd need to do no matter what the bike.

I dunno that I would try and use it on a tour of SF's steepest streets. I grew up in Central PA, with a 15-18% hill as the feature of every ride home. I know SF has roads that beat that. And I know if you stand on the pedals in some of the higher gears, you can have pretty serious slippage. So for really brutal climbing, you'd need to have some serious skills to keep the poor bike happy.

thdave

A nice comparable bike is the Kona Africa.

backinthesaddle

Don't expect to do any serious climbing, maybe some very gentle grades, since where I live is completely flat, except for some very gradual climbs as you go away from the Bay shore. I'll save the serious hill climbing (plenty of that not too far away) for my road bike. Nice to know, though, that the Breezer's capable.

So is the pedal slippage still a concern on the flats, say on a rainy day?

thdave

Serious slippage? I'd ignore this comment, if I were you. I've got 10K miles on my Nexus 7 hub and the only time it's slipped is when the cable needed adjustment, after I put on new grips and moved the shifter. It never slips.

HardyWeinberg

However, they are the only pedals in our collective fleet that can be ridden barefoot.

Torrilin

No, I meant what I said.

It's pretty common in extremely hilly areas for riders to upshift a cog or 3, and stand to climb hills. On an IGH, if the upshifts engage the 3rd planetary assembly, you're putting a ton of torque on some very finely machined precision gears. It is not good for them, at all. Apply enough abuse, and the hub will start slipping and eventually break. It is better to learn to climb seated, or to upgrade your rear cog if it happens often enough.

With the right leverage, even a gimpy chick like me can break metal . And the Breezer frames are good enough that standing to climb is totally an option...

backinthesaddle

OK, I think I misunderstood you, I thought you meant foot slipping off the pedals, which I'm concerned about. Now I think you're talking about gear slippage on steep climbs which is not a concern for me, given I won't be climbing.

Still wondering whether I should plan on swapping out the pedals before our rainy season starts next fall?

PaulRivers

I own a bike with an IGH (alfine) with disc brakes, generator hub, etc.

I found the low maintenance benefits of an IGH way overstated. I found I had to adjust it because of cable stretch anyways. And after that, all the maintenance was in the chain, which an IGH and a derailleur both have. Plus the chain is greasy, etc. If I had to buy a new winter bike today and stuck with an IGH, I would either -
1. Get one with a belt drive. No oil, no chain maintenance.
2. Get one of the breezer models with a *full* chaincase.

If you're not biking in the snow in the winter, rim brakes would probably be fine. I've heard many, many people talk about the good wet weather performance of the Koolstop Salmon pads, so I would replace the stock pads with those (unless they already come with them). I actually did that on my bike, but haven't had a chance to bike in the rain yet so I can't say how well they work there. They work great out of the rain though, better than the stock pads my bike came with! :-)

I would definitely get something with a chainring / chainguard. I've seen some aftermarket chainguards if the front ring is 48 cogs or less. I've also found (having used one for a while) that a chainring is just as effective for keeping my jeans away from the chain, but it's very very difficult to get one of those put on afterwards.

I've heard several people say that the stopping power of drum brakes is notably inferior to rim brakes. I would avoid them. Some rim brakes work well in the dry and crappy in the rain, drum brakes work crappy in the dry and crappy in the rain (though they're consistent!). That's what I've heard at least. If you get a flat, they also make taking the tire off much much harder I've read.

"And the IGH is just the best if you're pulling the trailer uphill and need to downshift, you are guaranteed a successful shift."

I...think this is pretty much the opposite of the truth. I'm not 100% sure - maybe downshifting is different than upshifting? IGH's typically prefer to do their shifting with no load (while deraillers can only shift while pedaling). Modern IGH's can certainly shift under load, but they don't like it as much as not having any load. Seems like it would be more difficult to shift, but like I said I'm not sure if downshifting is somehow different than upshifting.

"I'm not very strong, I (like a lotta women) have some knee issues, and I live in a dense enough urban area that emergency stops are common"

An IGH lets you shift while you're stopped, that's very convenient, especially if you're hauling stuff. However, I will also say that an IGH makes your rear hub notably heavier, which puts more strain on your body when you go to accelerate. My mom rode 2 Specialized bikes, one with an IGH and one with a derailler and she preferred the one with the derailler. Said it was easier to keep up with me.

Good luck!

backinthesaddle

I don't understand bicycle geometry very well, but looking at the geometry charts for the Breezer and its competitors, looks like the Breezer has a shorter wheelbase than most. And I think shorter wheelbase leads to more maneuverability. Wouldn't that be at last partially due to the smaller wheels?