Chugosh

I am looking at getting on a bike again after a few years of not having one, and in looking around doing my researches found this forum. I have been given lot of good information so far. On this particular area of the forum, I thought it might be useful to have a look from the other end of the traffic spectrum.

I have been driving trucks for about eleven years. In that time, I have had a lot of encounters with all sort of traffic, including bicycles. Almost all of these have been entirely uneventful. Most of the time, both the cyclist and myself have operated our machines legally and safely. I would say that I have been frightened much more often by cars than by bikes.

I run daily from Woodland Washington to Tigard Oregon to get my load, then take the load a hundred miles east on I-84 to dump it, and then return to Woodland. Mostly I see commuters in the Tigard area and tour bikes out on I-84 in the Columbia River gorge. A lot of folks riding like they aught to. Usually out on the freeway, I give the riders an extra lane of room as I pass, assuming I am not being crowded myself. The freeway seems to have a decent shoulder most of the way, so even if crowded, it is not too bad, I hope. In town, I am more than happy to give the bike the lane where there is a question.

For the sake of your lives, don't pass me on the right when I am aiming to turn! I simply cannot see you in my blind spot.

I am happy to answer any questions in my power.

hagen2456

Thank you. Interesting to have your perspective - literally! It makes me wonder about one thing: how can there be a blind spot? Shouldn't the mirrors cover the whole broadside of a truck?

rydabent

Since over the road truckers are professionals, they are almost never a danger to cyclist. Getting mad or careless and hitting a cyclist could ruin their livelyhood.

dynodonn 

Just make sure that you always signal your turning intentions, and check all your turn signal lights on a daily basis, and quickly clean or fix any turn signal lights that maybe obscured or inoperative.

dynodonn 

Not always, tighter business schedules, and large turnover/burnout rates, have made a large number of truck drivers into thinking that they're behind the wheel of the family sport sedan, or sports car.

corvuscorvax

Been posted here before, but it makes the point very well:

ItsJustMe

Appreciate the AMA. When I see a cyclist that was crunched under a turning truck, especially a right-turning truck, unless there is other evidence I assume it was the cyclist's fault. Pulling up on the right of a truck anywhere near any kind of a driveway or intersection is essentially equivalent to suicide IMO, whether in a car or a bicycle. Anyone who has ever actually paid attention to a turning truck should understand that.

dynodonn 

Any truck driver worth their salt would be extremely aware of their surroundings when making any turning movement, and not act as though other road users "be damned" if they were run over. I personally can tell the experience level of many truck drivers by how they operate their trucks around other road users, especially when they are making turning movements.

sauerwald

Agree - I have very few issues with professional truck drivers. I am a bit confused by why there are so many bad taxi drivers, since I would expect that they would also be professionals and would follow the rules of the road. My biggest fear is the driver of an SUV, with screaming kids in the back, talking on her phone and putting on makeup while driving 40mph.

gcottay

This reply misses or ignores the potentially life-saving point of the original post. No matter how good and careful the truck driver he or she sometimes cannot see cyclists who come up fast intending to pass on the right. The implications for cycling are rather simple.

• If we suspect a truck may be turning right we do not pass on the right.
• When our situational awareness leaves us certain the truck is not turning right we nevertheless prepare for an unexpected right hook

We cannot control the quality of the truck drivers we encounter but have immediate and direct control over our riding.

Thanks, Chugosh, for your post. Now get that bike and start riding. After a few thousand miles you will have a much better idea of what you really want.

dynodonn 

Anytime you are paid by the load, and not on an hourly basis, you can expect a number of these drivers to cut corners on safety.

I recently put a concerned word in the right ear of an influential person who has connections with one of our local trucking companies, on the fact that one of their( load paid) truck drivers was constantly using a local low speed street as their own personal expressway, with a max load of cargo on board. A few days later the same truck driver started going at or near the posted.

dynodonn 

The OP's response is typical of someone who is in either denial of their responsibilities as a truck driver or is trying to put the full blame on any road user that he might injure or kill.

Situational awareness is a two way street, and not solely on the cyclist who is operating FRAP.

If the OP's statement was more in the tone of advisory, "Please be aware that I may not see you when I am making a turn", rather than a "Your gonna die if you pass me on the right", I might have been more conciliatory in my response.

corvuscorvax

The OP sounded to me like a responsible professional who has an exemplary attitude toward cyclists. You sound to me like you're working very hard to convince him he is mistaken to take that attitude.

ItsJustMe

I didn't see that attitude at all. The simple truth is that on some rigs, it's not possible to see a cyclist in some places along the side of the truck. Also once the turn is started, all of the mirrors are turned with the rig and you can't see ANYTHING but the side of the truck. This is true regardless of how much care the driver takes. If a cyclist is directly behind the truck, then as the truck drifts left, cuts right and starts to go around, he may very well be riding into a wide right and by the time he went around the truck to the right the cab was swinging right. If the cyclist is unaware of how truck rear wheels track, they may see the right turn and stop along side the truck then get squished under the trailer rear tires, and there was no point anywhere in that sequence where any driver could possibly have seen the cyclist.

If there is a way that a cyclist could dodge around and never be seen by the driver, at some point someone WILL ride in that fashion without really trying, just out of (bad) luck.

Sure, an experienced, careful truck driver who can watch ALL of his mirrors 100% of the time and is 100% attentive and rested and didn't just roll into an unfamiliar town after a 12 hour drive will probably see you, but you'd be stupid to rely on all of that because you think you can shave 10 seconds off your ride by passing on the right.

dynodonn 

I sure did, but I guess that's a difference in our "perspectives".



An experienced truck driver will be intently watching the mirror that will give him the most info in the direction of any turning movement. An experienced truck driver who's not fully rested, and rolls into a unfamiliar town will give any turning movement the utmost scrutiny.

There's considerably more formal training/testing involved in becoming a professional truck driver than becoming a cyclist, and with the damage capability significantly higher, the burden of responsibility weighs heavier on the truck driver.

CommuterRun

It has been my experience that drivers of vehicles requiring a CDL are, as a group, the most professional and courteous drivers on the road.

I mentioned this in conversation one time with a, then, co-worker of mine who was retired from over 30 years of driving trucks. He started off as local at first, then after a few years went long-haul. He laughingly said, "Because they want to keep their job." But I think there's more to it than that. I think it's more because of the additional training and knowledge required to get and keep a CDL. Training and knowledge that people who don't drive vehicles requiring a CDL aren't required to have.

It is up to the cyclist (or the operator of any other vehicle, for that matter) to stay out of a trucks blind spots. Just like riding at night without lights; if a driver can't see you, it is completely unreasonable to expect the driver to know you are there.

kjmillig

dynodonn, have you ever been a semi-truck driver? I was an over-the-road driver for the better part of 8 years. I was required to go through annual drive education classes and safety classes every 2 months. I guarantee you that a professional driver driver making a wide right turn has huge blind spots that change as the turn is being made. I thankfully never had a cyclist pull up on my right during a turn, but I had a few cars do it. They were in such a hurry that as soon as my rear axle moved left, they tried to shoot past on;y to see the cab and front of the trailer turning right. I didn't see them until my cab came clear of the trailer and had to slam on the brakes to keep from squishing them into the curb. From my perspective as a former big rig driver, the OP was very professional in his posting.

CommuterRun

Not a trucker; but I have always thought this clip is very funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlSFenzYOvQ
Get pinched between two Freightliners and you ain't goin' jack-S for nowhere.

Mos6502

Hmmm. Speaking as somebody who had a friend killed by a right turning truck, and in general as a reasonable person, I'll have to disagree.
You're assuming that anybody on the right of a truck must be passing, or trying to pass, or pulling up to the truck and therefore putting themselves in danger.

Even though that is would be a stupid thing to do, it still doesn't excuse the driver of any vehicle from the responsibility to make sure that the space their vehicle is moving into is clear.

When a large load is moved the truck driver doesn't get to drive willy nilly knocking over street signs on corners just because they have a large vehicle. The have spotters and if need be they will remove things that are in the way to clear a path. It is not the responsibility of everybody else to make way.

dynodonn 

As a truck driver, your safety classes would have constantly emphasized that motorists will make those types of maneuvers, yet you were caught off guard.
Can I ask a question, why did you stop driving big rigs?

terrapin44

Agreed. The OP had a very good attitude and was just pointing something he has seen. I know a number of extremely safety-concisiosus drivers and the stories they tell me make me cringe. His post is a good reminder.

Chris516

Define 'truck', pursuant to 'load'. Are you talking about a 10, 16, or 18-wheel axle?

Chugosh

Actually it has 28 wheels. six axles of four wheels plus two of two wheels. It weighs 38,000 empty and 103,000 loaded.


In my original post, I was certainly not meaning to threaten. I was expressing my terror of such a horrific thing occurring. I am very sorry that my language was misleading.

I have no idea why kj stopped driving the big rigs, but as for me, if I knew how to do anything else and still make enough money for my family, I would certainly do something else. They do pound on the body so! I have only been at it for ten years, but I would take the change tomorrow if it opened. Also it gets lonely out there, even on a daily run like mine.

It is not always the fault of the cyclist when such a tragedy happens. Indeed it is very often a trucker getting ahead of himself that causes it. And the magnitude of damage is not to be discounted. A very slow collision with a truck, by sheer weight, would be as devastating as a fast one from a car.

And remember, there are some classic idiots out there on all sorts of rides, trucks included.

Camilo

Anyone who passes any vehicle on the right when a right turn is legal (or on the left when a left turn is legal) is a complete idiot. A cyclist in that situation is totally responsible for any consequences.

nd2010

I would never pass a truck on the right unless it was stopped or stuck in slow traffic. In free flowing traffic, if a truck slows down in the right lane, it's probably going to turn right soon.

And yes, commercial drivers are the best drivers on the road as a group. They need a clean CDL to make a living, and they won't risk it being angry with a cyclist. They know the traffic laws inside out since they needed that to get their CDL.