Hondo Gravel

Teamprovicycle

Im pretty sure carbon is 100% percent repairable. With the right shop you can refurbish it for less than new frame .. metal is more durable but cant be repaired once cracked .

mstateglfr 

...except in all the instances where steel was repaired once cracked.

Metieval

hiten can easily be repaired, but hiten is worthless.. so there is that.

redlude97

Carbon is a lot stronger than people think, and except for certain areas can almost always be repaired. I ride carbon because it was the lightest choice and tube shaping could be optimized for carrying etc and wanted less weight on my back. I crash my bike almost every weekend during the race season and other than some chips and scratches to the paint its still chugging along strong along with the hundreds of other carbon race bikes I see at every race.

McBTC

I've owned one CF bike and enjoyed the feel and definitely appreciate some of the properties as a frame material. Even so, while I don't think of it as being fragile and see why it's the material of choice by professional racers, those who arguably know as much or more about it than anyone-- Trek... seems to have gone out of the way to redesign the seat post / seat tube interface to eliminate a weakness in using the CF material in a manner that is not a problem when using alloy or cromo.

Similarly, many have zero trepidation when using a stem extender on a alloy steerer tube of a fork. I, however, would feel a bit uneasy using a stem extender on a CF steerer tube... more so than have a lot of exposed CF seatpost (but, I'd rather have less).

mstateglfr 

cromoly, in generic and branded forms, can be repaired too.

motorthings

i always tell people if they have any concerns about carbon fiber's toughness or durability to stop by their LBS when they are destroying a frame for a manufacturer's warranty. i have seen massive people jumping up and down on the rear triangle of a cf frame without causing any damage (except to the paint). if you can't do that, check youtube for some of the cycle-test rigs mfgs use to stress test their frames.

most frame materials are far stronger than anything anyone will ever dish out. buy what makes you happy and ride the snot out of it.

fietsbob

carbon is the hot trend, so you get more strokes from your mates.

More than buying Titanium? Maybe, but I don't know who your riding buddies are..

note ; all the threads asking is it cracked, ? (or scratched with only a phone picture to go on,
and how do I get it fixed if it is..




...

mstateglfr 

what? This is a hot mess.

I'll clarify.

- I repair each frame never. Not sure why you asked how often as that has nothing to do with if cromoly frames are repairable.

- I don't repair each frame because see point 1. I haven't needed to repair my frames.

- while I enjoy steel frames, I am not a retrogrouch. I have modern drivetrains, modern wheels, etc. I am not sure what 'making good on it' means.

- frames of all sorts can be damaged. Whether I have high level steel or low level steel, both can be damaged. High level aluminum, titanium, and carbon can also be damaged. The level quality of tubing or a frame overall has nothing to do with if it can be damaged. That's obvious so I'm not sure why you are saying/suggesting i have a cheap frame mentality.


I have watched multiple steel frames be fixed. Lugs were heated up, the brass or silver was liquefied, and the damaged tube was pulled. New tube is prepped and fitted in.
these were handbuilt road frames and quality mass production franes.



I picked up on some hostility and am not sure why. All I have said up to now is that steel frames can be repaired and clarified that it isnt just low level steel frames that can be repaired.
that is accurate, yet I sense contempt and am responding to a post that makes little sense to me accusing me of...well I am not sure what.

Happy Feet

I also thought the hi ten comment was unnecessarily argumentative. Not sure why.

I own hi ten, chromoly, and aluminum/carbon bikes and find each has its place. I don't know about CF but the repairability of steel bikes is self evident in how common it is to have brake bosses and attachment points added post production and how frames are chopped and reshaped by alternative bike builders.
I assume Aluminum is the same though that type of welder is a little harder to find sometimes.

Happy Feet

Troll harder. That was just lame.

Koyote

Back to the OP's question about the pros and cons of carbon fiber bike frames.

Pros: Tends to be lighter than other materials, and ride quality can be 'tuned' in a way that is not as possible with metals -- so, can be stiff where needed and compliant where needed.
Cons: Not as easily repaired as steel, but still repairable. (Bear in mind that it is unusual to break a frame, and most riders would simply get a new one - perhaps through mfr's crash replacement program.)

Bonzo Banana

A perfectly manufactured carbon frame that has never been crashed or abused may be fatigue resistant but the reality is they are made by hand with possible voids, ripples etc and can form cracks over time as they are used which is effectively fatigue as can be the case if the bike falls over or has a minor crash. Luescher Technik on youtube gives a lot of great info on carbon frames but the most common carbon failure is carbon forks which could be paired with a steel, aluminium or carbon frame. Luescher Technik cut up a recent Trek carbon frame and the manufacturing quality seemed improved over older carbon frames so the manufacturing process is evolving but still JRA (just riding along) failures seem most common with carbon forks and frames.

Carbon is a pointless expense and upgrade for myself I'm a heavy rider who doesn't competitively cycle and it serves no purpose except to lower the safety level of my cycling. It's a good material if you put lightness and speed above everything else and can look after the bike well wherever it goes. I think it's important to make sure you need a carbon bike and it makes sense for you. Sometime back I drove past many cyclists in some sort of race or event and it was clear at the back of the pack was the most elderly cyclists but they also had the nicest most expensive carbon bikes. I think in their situation I would of preferred a worse bike so I could have at least partially blamed the bike when I came in last. Like most forms of transport it's mainly about the engine.

Metieval

you do realize that your weight is irrelevant to Carbon?

It doesn't make carbon bad. It just means road race style bikes are not designed for you, be them thin walled Columbus STEEL tubing or carbon!

Happy Feet

I found this video interesting:
Near the end he gives some thoughts as to pairing the material to the intended use which t paraphrase: If you want a very light bike carbon makes sense, if you plan to crash a lot perhaps something other.

To me the issue is two fold.

If one seriously crashes either a CF or Al bike one probably won't repair it. Same with Steel as well although, as mstateglfr pointed out, steel tubes can be removed and replaced if the frame is particularly meaningful to the owner. But these days I would not buy a frame based solely on repairability unless I planned to crash a lot or travel in some remote region of the world.

Smaller damage is more likely to be the issue IMO and there it's a bit of what one is comfortable with in regards to aesthetics and risk. I have a Chromoly mtb with a dent in the top tube that I have ridden extensively, having no fear that it will fail. Could I do the same with CF or a crack in Al. I don't know. I know I could DIY a non critical CF repair because people build bamboo bikes using resin and cf fiber all the time but would one be comfortable with the kludgy look on an otherwise expensive bike? Personal choice.

In diving we talk a lot about the failure modes of Al vs steel in regards to HP tanks. Both serve well and Al is by far the more prevalent material. However, on the rare occasions that it fails, Al does so far more catastrophically, fracturing into parts while steel tends to rupture but remain intact. For bikes that translates into Al cracking and then failing completely while steel can sustain damage yet still maintain structural integrity longer.

But.. as I said. I own bikes with all three materials and add no weight to material based on down the road repairability that way. I prefer steel personally as it is a material I am familiar with and thus can work on creatively in my own shop but that's just a hobbyist's perspective.

Bonzo Banana

No one makes a super sturdy extra thick carbon frame and forks for heavy people as far as I know and carbon would be the wrong material choice I'm sure and for normal carbon framed bikes the rider weight limits tend to be less. It's a brittle easy to damage material often with a shorter warranty. I'm fully aware of the Columbus steel tubing where they make a competitive lightweight frame out of steel and end up with a frame much weaker than other materials that to me again is a very poor design choice where carbon is more suited. There is an excellent page here which pretty much sums up my opinion of the materials.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/kn...me-Materials-0

Also a great image from fuji-ta the world's largest bicycle manufacturer who make many frames for top brands including 6069/6061 aluminium frames and carbon frames for the likes of companies like Cannondale.



I pretty much see merit in most bikes but do feel carbon fibre frames are the wrong choice for a lot of people who don't really benefit from them or the extra expense of buying them and may actually be detrimental to their safety.

Metieval

well yeah duh,
cycling seems to be a Athletic kind of a sport with an Athletic dominate customer base.

Metieval

that is an interesting twist to the pro/con talk.

It would be fun to see the size, shape, and fitness of the people behind the arguments. I am going to guess it would be very "telling".

BillyD

Let's get something straight. Just because you have a different opinion than others doesn't give you license to start labeling people with derogatory terms like "retro grouch" and "cheap frame mentality". We can have a discussion without trying to be superior to others.

And this remark edges you very close to the precipice -

Metieval

Technically the Topic is pros/cons of Carbon Fiber. If the steel guys wish to go make their 'own' pros/cons of steel frames topic that would be great, and best for all?

Happy Feet

Careful what you wish for.

A month ago. How about a recent one of you?

Homebrew01

MOD NOTE TO ALL..... In case anyone missed it, the thread topic is "Carbon Fiber Pros and Cons?"
Nowhere in the title does it refer to discussing other BF members.

mstateglfr 

wow, I came back to this thread and your posts are somehow just as hot a mess as before.

it seems you think i am on a side here. I am not. Read my posts so far- I simply clarified twice that steel can be repaired and you then went overboard and ranted at me.
but since i have steel frames, I am guessing you think i have an argument for them and therefore against carbon.

I have nothing against carbon as a frame material.

I'll take the bait and discuss myself as I have nothing to hide when it comes to my body type.
I am 6'5 and weigh 230#. I ride 64/65cm frames. I will never be a featherweight due to my body type and I enjoy offering suggestions based on experience to others here who are similar sized(ht or wt) since its a tough category for the cycling market to serve.
I used to be extremely active and am now more active than many and less active than many.

This is from a gravel race where i didnt place first and didnt come in last.

mstateglfr 

you have really gotten into pictures over the last year.
and its been great to see how you show each one! You do a good job of complimenting the incredible landscape you ride.