Mickey2

I have been looking for something to extract cotter pins from a Raleigh crank. The last time it was done, I handed the bike in to the local repair shop, but it was not a good job. The guy there ended up drilling out the old cotter pins, and I am slighly worried he might have damaged the crank set on one side; it never really tightened up again once the new cotter pins was in (like one of the cotter pins is slighly too small).

However, once the pins where out, I cleaned, replaced damaged ball cage my self, greased and let the repair guy tighten the crank with the idea he knew how to get it right better than me. However, I think he was tired of it all, he was about to close his shop in a couple of months and was a bit hasty in his work.

I think I need to do this my self this time to make sure it's done reasonably correctly. There is one, possibly two, other repairs shops in town that will take in vintage bikes, but I have to supply all replacement parts my self. The best way might be if I could manage on my own.

I could go on and on with the problems and hours spend on this crank LOL.

Does anyone know if the clever tool to extract the cotter pins is available some where? There is a couple of threads with a video and drawing of how to make your own cotter pin tool, but welding tools are needed and it's a bit out of my league. Does anyone have a spare for sale? I'm not sure how to go about it this time.

Bill Kapaun

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...ed-cranks.html

FBinNY 

Type "cotter pin press tool" into your search engine.
Hit "images" and you'll find a few.
Click on any for details.

To my knowledge, only the one that looks like a square C cut from a block of steel is still available new.

OR

You can learn how to reliably hammer pins out successfully, with no damage to the bike.

WizardOfBoz

The way I did it when I had a cottered crank (in 1972 or so) was to remove the nut, replace it with a spare (sacrificial) nut, finger tighten the sacrificial nut, back the sacrificail nut off one thread or so and then really whack that nut with a hammer. The nut protected the threads, but also gives a bigger surface area to whack, or to mate up with a punch that you whack. Ideally the crank itself is supported directly (that is, don't put the bike in a maintenance stand and try to drive the cotter out without really beefy support directly under the crank arm on either side of the cotter). Sheldon suggested used a spare crank as an anvile, I put the whole thing on top of a really beefy vice (a 6 inch Wilton bullet for example) vise. Once removed, carefully inspect the spindle and the holes in the crank arms where the cotters (they're cotters, not cotter pins) go. Drill marks on either is a bad sign. The cotter should be a sliding fit with no slop. If the cotter feels at all loose in that hole, then either the guy hit the crank with the drill, or the cotter holes were stretched at some point.

Pay attention to what Sheldon wrote: you need to press the cotters in, orient them in opposite directions to ensure that the crank lines up, and after an initial few miles of riding, press them in again. The nut and washer are not the mechanism for tightening the cotter: a press is. The nut only is there to keep the thing snug.

dedhed

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ter-press.html

jorglueke

[QUOTE=FBinNY;19452174

You can learn how to reliably hammer pins out successfully, witness no damage to the bike.[/QUOTE]

They don't all come out the same way. The last Raleigh crank I had one came out normally, the other one needed to be drilled. If one works on cotters cranks more than once it's probably worth scaring up or making a tool.

SkyDog75

It *is* possible the cotter's too small. British and Asian cotters are typically 9.5 mm in diameter, while 9.0 is common for French and Italian cranksets.

As for tooling, in addition to the methods mentioned above, it's also possible to improvise a press with a vise and socket.

FBinNY 

Sorry, but IMO anyone who ever has to drill a cotter pin has failed as bike mechanic.

They ALL come out with a hammer, no exceptions. Most come out with a single blow, though a few need some extra persuasion. The hardest to remove are those that some ham fisted clod worked on first. But they too come out with some prep work.

BTW this is based on years of working on bikes before the advent of cotterless cranks. Cottered cranks haven't changed, but the skills related to them have atrophied after 40 years.

FBinNY 

The vise method works very well. My only objection is that it's awkward to set up, especially when dealing with a cotter that someone else has mushroomed.

However it may be better for someone who isn't comfortable swinging a hammer.

HillRider

How about a big C-clamp in place of the vise and a socket to provide clearance for the cotter to come out. Same technique except you don't have to hold the frame at such an awkward angle.

Years ago I worked on a couple of old Stronglight cottered cranks and had no real problems removing the cotters using the above technique. I never had to reinstall the cotters since the purpose of removing them was to replace the entire crank and bottom bracket with something a lot lighter and easier to work on.

FBinNY 

C-clamps aren't built to nearly the strength needed to press out a tight pin. I know of far too many cases where the net result was destroyed C-clamps, and also of a few, fortunately minor, injuries caused by tensioned clamps jumping off

drlogik 

No need to apologize and I completely agree.

The issue today is no bikes come with cottered cranks so the mechanics don't have much experience with them.

A 3/4" brass rod and a dead-blow hammer does the trick once you support the crank on top of a 2x10 board so as to take the pressure off the crank and frame. I had three 2x10 boards I cut maybe two feet long and nailed them together like a laminate and drilled a 1" hole on the outside one to accept the pin when driving it out. It's easier to have somebody support the bike for you.

That board saw a lot of action when I worked in shops through the 70's.

FBinNY 

I don't apologize for the content of my posts. I apologize for any hurt feelings they might cause.

HillRider

You don't have the right C-clamp! I wasn't recommending a 2" or 3" lightweight but something big and STRONG, say 4" or more and steel, not aluminum.

And, yes you do have to keep the swivel pad on the screwpress centered over the cotterpin's threaded end to keep it from popping off. Threading the cotter's nut part way, as recommended for the hammer technique will give the C-clamp a more stable flat surface to press against.

FBinNY 

Yes, it can be done, but I've seen the clamp deflect and twist slightly then jump off with quite a bit of energy.

However, That too can be managed with care. But raises another question. If one doesn't do carpentry or cabinet making, odds are they don't have an appropriate clamp, so if it's a purchase, they might as well buy one of the presses.

OTOH - most people own a hammer, and can scrounge up various bits of scrap they can use to properly dolly the crank. All they lack is knowledge, which can be had free.

BTW - Years ago, I walked into a bike shop that was struggling with a jammed pin. I won a bet removing with my first shot, and ended up winning a wife.

Bandera

@FBinNY,

One tool that I wish that I still had from the 1st shop that I worked in was a brass-headed hammer shaped for just this task.
Woe unto he who attempted to use it for any other.

My shop mentor said that the brass head didn't re-bound like a steel one and one sharp accurate strike would suffice.
That being said we had an as nearly ancient forged (VAR ?) cotter press that weighed a ton to frighten any cotter into simply dropping to the floor in fright.

-Bandera

jorglueke

Well, I'm just 9 for 10.

fietsbob

The Other Period Shop Tool from BITD was A Cotter Gripping Clamp you put in the Bench vise, while you filed the soft steel cotter wedge .

to ba a Goldilocks fit, when you dropped it in the hole..


leaving the nut on, just backed off a little, has worked to hammer on the nut + cotter , enough to loosen it, but still keep the thread in good shape
to put it back together..

Bene Sugg : never pull the cotter pin with the Nut, bang on the other end, the nut snugged up just keeps it in there.


NB: ball pein hammers are softer steel than carpenter's hammers..

JohnDThompson 

Better yet, use the same press you used to remove the pin to press it back into place.

fietsbob

I had to make Replacement cotter pins, Back in my Day ..

then there were several sizes , some needed shaping to fit,

As a kid of 10, in 1957, I did not have a lot of bike tools, but a few screwed up jobs did teach me some shortcuts, to not bugger it up again..

dedhed

You need a REAL C clamp. Of course, unless you already own one, the cost of a heavy duty c clamp you can buy a cotter press.

We used to pick up sheets of 3/4" steel with a couple of these and the overhead crane.

HillRider

Wow, that's priceless! I do have to ask what was second prize?

FBinNY 

I think the bet was for something like $5.00, the relationship just grew out of the small seed.

3alarmer 

...the cotters themselves have changed dramatically. And I take personal offense at being called a failure.

I might be a failure, but getting called out on the internet for using a drill on a cotter instead of mindlessly continuing to pound away on it while cursing under my breath at the thing is not the reason. So there.

FBinNY 

I would never call you or anybody else out as a failure. I made a general statement with no individuals in mind, and after that it was more of a "iff the shoe fits....." kind of thing.

That said, I'm not the national arbiter of standards for mechanics, so nobody is obligated to accept my rules.

As for mindlessly pounding away, that would be dumb, but it is possible to pound intelligently and skillfully.

I've tapped out countless cotters in my lifetime, and have won bets knocking out ones that others were convinced needed drilling. Of course they all said "yeah, but all my pounding loosened it for you".

So, please don't be offended, you and I have always been able to cross swords without disrespect.