le bici di jaco

Unknown year (mid 80s?) and model Jan De Mol frame. I liked the look of this bike due to the seat stay conforming at the seat lug conjunction and fork crown design; and I got a good price (included 'GPM' front mech) on a package deal with another frameset. I could not find anything on this site or general search regarding builder or marque, year, or model. No marks on frame other than "ROUTE" on fork crown, and "GIPIEMME" stamped on drop outs. Reynolds "531c" tubing, 27.2mm seat post, 68 mm BB shell (threads either English or Swiss given left hand threads on left side; visually checked only), 126mm rear fork, bolt-on front mech (Gipiemme, but looks like a Simplex), internally routed rear brake cable. I am hoping seat stay and fork features will help in identification. I learned Heeswijk is a city in the Netherlands, but that's about it.

JDM FRAME

le bici di jaco

More photos:

fabiofarelli

That's not so far away from where I live. I don't think Jan de Mol build this himself, it was en still is a bikeshop, nowadays from his son. So maybe you can ask.
https://bikers.nl/over-ons/

le bici di jaco

Thank you fabiofarelli !
Did the shop sponsor its own team?
I sent them an email moments ago. Hopefully they will respond in the coming days. I would be curious to know who built frames for them.

fabiofarelli

The shop owner was before he started the shop mechanic of a more or less famous Dutch rider, far as I know he did not have his own team. Maybe he sponsored a while a local bicycling club which is quite normal in Europe as you probably know. But that has nothing to do with this frame. My first thought was and still is Belgium, for what's worth. Never seen a fork with 'route' on it. Isn't it hand stamped?

le bici di jaco

"Route" appears to be engraved/pantographed, and not originally cast into the crown. I thought it might be a model designation as opposed to a marque designation.

non-fixie 

The only brand that I know of that had a model called "Route" is Van Herwerden of Voorburg, Holland. In the eighties their frames were made by Zullo and Chesini, I believe,

le bici di jaco

I have a Van Herwerden frame I shipped home a year ago; still in the box with a couple other odd frames. Different style than the JDM frame and no model designation. I need to pull it out and see what parts I need.

The JDM has been verified to have an English threaded BB shell/68mm so I assume it is not Italian made aside from being a 531c frame. No responses from a couple messages sent to Netherlands regarding the frame. Frame and fork weigh about 5.7 pounds.

fabiofarelli

The shop is closed on sundays and mondays ..

non-fixie 

The more I look at this frame, the more I tend to agree with fabiofarelli wrt it being a Belgian frame.

How is the SJ A222 mounted? On a proper braze-on or a rivnut?

le bici di jaco

The front mech is mounted on a threaded boss. I think Fabio was saying it is a Dutch marque, but not necessarily built in the Netherlands.

fabiofarelli

I did not mention the word 'marque', I think that's too big for the production made. Again, I think...
Belgian Builders as Martens, Vaneenooghe and Weymans among others made lotta high quality frames for Dutch and Belgian bikeshops who sold them under their own name.

Chombi1 

Nice frame,.......except for the French style FD mount, which limits your FD choice to the Simplex (rebranded as a Gipiemme) FD shown. One can make a Mavic French style, FD work, but it will not align with the crankset rings properly, without modification as the mounting boss is clocked to the seat tube to only work with the Simplex FD. The boss will most likely be also slightly too high on the seat tube.
So, it will be best to stay with the Simplex/Gipiemme FD with this frameset.

fabiofarelli

I did not mention the word 'marque', I think that's too big for tne production made. Again, I think...
Belgian Builders as Martens, Vaneenooghe and Weymans among others made lotta high quality frames for Dutch and Belgian bikeshops who sold them under their own name.

le bici di jaco

Sorry, I used the term "marque" loosely. I have a very old (50s) Martens frame, but it is unlike the JDM frame shown. Thank you for those references. I will see if I can match up unique frame features to those builders.

non-fixie 

If the FD braze-on is original than it is a mid-eighties frame, as the SJ A 222 derailleurs were only available for a short while, AFIK. The style is not unlike the early Martelly bikes I've seen.

le bici di jaco

Original boss; not sure as to original mech.

le bici di jaco

I've gotten no response from Netherlands bike shop. Best I could do through researching was that the front mech was only made 1984-1985, and the 531c decal is from 1985-1989. Guessing frame is from '85-'87, but don't know the maker or country of origin.

non-fixie 

I would suggest you send an e-mail to Eddy Martens at Martelly. From what I've heard Eddy generally responds to queries about the company's older work. Even if it's not one of theirs, he might be able to point you in the right direction.

le bici di jaco

Thanks @non-fixie , message sent.

le bici di jaco

Here is the reply I received from Eddy Martens. Very nice of him to reply; and quickly at that.
"ik heb de fotos bekeken en de materialen en afwerking komen overeen met onze afwerking in die tijd. Wij graveerden ook in de vorkkronen , maar zeker ben ik niet dat we deze gemaakt hebben. Het frame en de vork heefd veel gemeen met onze frames sets indertijd , maar volle zekerheid kan ik niet geven."


I hope I got the translation close:

"I have looked at the photos and the materials, and workmanship corresponds to our workmanship at the time. We also engraved the fork crowns, but I am not sure that we made them. The frame and fork have a lot in common with our frame sets at the time, but I can't be absolutely sure."

Not a "slam dunk", but at least some confirmation that there is a possibility.

I am emptying my storage unit after my move so coming across more stuff I have had and somewhat forgotten about. I will post as separate threads. I was mistaken about the early Martens frame; it is a Rijwielen Mertens frame and not "Martens".

non-fixie 

Very nice of Eddy to reply so quickly. Basically he is wording my exact thoughts of a couple of days ago. And at least confirming it is a nice frame.

le bici di jaco

I received a reply from John De Mol:

"Dat is toevallig dat je zo bij ons terecht komt, je bent wel precies waar je moet zijn, ik ben namelijk John de Mol de zoon van Jan de Mol die op het frame vermeld staat.
Jan de Mol is in 1984 een fietsenwinkel begonnen en heeft in die beginperiode met regelmaat racefietsen opgebouwd, dit is een frame dat hij los kocht zonder merk en daar zijn eigen merk van maakte en zo fietsen naar wens van de klant bouwde.
Hoe ben je aan dit frame gekomen? en waar woon je ergens.
Wel leuk om zo te zien dat dit soort frames nog steeds bestaan."

Again, I hope the translation is somewhat accurate:

"It is a coincidence that you have come to us in this manner, you are exactly where you need to be, because I am John de Mol the son of Jan de Mol who is mentioned on the frame.
Jan de Mol started a bicycle shop in 1984 and in those early days regularly built up racing bikes. This is a frame that he bought separately without a brand, and made his own brand of it, then building up bikes according to the customer's wishes.
How did you get this frame and where do you live?
It's nice to see that frames like this still exist."

This was in response to a message I sent to Bikers NL, a bike shop in Heeswijk Netherlands. which is what originally was the Jan De Mol shop. I am going to correspond again to see if they might be able to determine where the frame originated from. It is somewhat surprising to hear that apparently they have not, or are not seeing their old branded frames. I would have thought that there would still be some kicking around the local area, but who knows how many were actually sold under that name.

I had sent a message to a Mr. Jan De Mol on facebook, but he may just have been a namesake and not the person of interest as applies here; no reply after 2 messages.

fabiofarelli

Translation is correct. I'm pretty sure Jan de Mol on FB is the right one, we share four FB-friends and a lot of cyclists on his list, many in the neighbourhood of Heeswjk. Guess he's not so FB-ish.
And it's not that strange those oldies with their name on it, probably the amount was very little .. I never saw one or even heard of it and it's 35 km from where I live.

le bici di jaco

Although I am not posting anything new to the site; I figured I would continue to update anything I have already started threads on.
I have received another reply from John De Mol about this frame.

"Sorry voor mijn late antwoord maar door drukte was het me even ontschoten.
Wat leuk dat je zo bezig bent om deze frames en fietsen zo te behouden, ik heb er met mijn vader over gesproken maar hij weet ook niet wie de framebouwer is, hij kocht de frames toendertijd bij Empella (Ad van empel) https://www.empella.nl/ daar heeft hij ook gewerkt. Hij denkt dat die de frames in belgië kocht maar misschien kan hij je daar nog verder mee helpen.
Succes, en ik hou me aanbevolen als je de fiets ooit kwijt wilt, erg leuk."

Again, please pardon me if translation is not accurate.

"Sorry for my late reply but due to busy times it just slipped my mind.
How nice that you are so busy preserving these frames and bikes, I've talked to my father about it but he doesn't know who the frame builder is either, he bought the frames at the time at Empella (Ad van empel) https://www.empella.nl/ he also worked there. He thinks he bought the frames in Belgium but maybe he can help you with that.
Good luck, and i like it if you ever want to get rid of the bike, very nice."

It would seem that the frame was obtained from Empella bike company, who in turn sourced their frames from a Belgium builder. I am going to follow up on the Empella connection and see if I can pinpoint the actual frame source.
I am becoming quite familiar with Dutch brands since I also have Sirocco and Hopmans bikes.