Mystery wheelset/skewer logo ID
06-21-23, 01:22 PM
#1
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Mystery wheelset/skewer logo ID
I'm working on an old low-end Gitane mixte for a friend. Cottered cranks, that cool purple paint with foil decals, Simplex plastique shifting, Mafac brakes. You know the drill. But it's got some decent 27" wheels on it, and I'm wondering what they are. Aluminum hubs and aluminum rims, but both unbranded. Shimano freewheel with the 3.3.3 branding and the old style Shimano remover that's got deep splines like a Regina. The rims have textured sidewalls even though they are aluminum, not steel. The only logo on the wheelset is on the quick release skewer, of which here's a photo:
Anyone got any idea what brand these are?
I'm mostly trying to figure out because I'm wondering if they are French. If they are French (and French threaded), it means the freewheel, a Shimano, is likely going to strip the threads when it comes off. I'd like to avoid that. I have never seen a French threaded Shimano freewheel.
Anyone got any idea what brand these are?
I'm mostly trying to figure out because I'm wondering if they are French. If they are French (and French threaded), it means the freewheel, a Shimano, is likely going to strip the threads when it comes off. I'd like to avoid that. I have never seen a French threaded Shimano freewheel.
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06-21-23, 01:38 PM
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Thanks! I was thinking Sansin/Sunshine, but have never seen this variant. Where would the 5345 be stamped? The hubs are pretty grimy and I only cleaned up the hub barrels looking for logos.
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06-21-23, 02:27 PM
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yes, skewer a relatively early Matsumoto one
the company's large flange hub which was contemporaneous with this skewer had the small round holes in its flanges
when the fange holes subsequently changed to the larger ones the skewer changed to the model with the curved lever and the full Sunshine name
but of course hubs could be Matsumoto or they could be something else...
better view of barrel and flanges might help readers to help you
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yes, skewer a relatively early Matsumoto one
the company's large flange hub which was contemporaneous with this skewer had the small round holes in its flanges
when the fange holes subsequently changed to the larger ones the skewer changed to the model with the curved lever and the full Sunshine name
but of course hubs could be Matsumoto or they could be something else...
better view of barrel and flanges might help readers to help you
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Last edited by juvela; 06-22-23 at 07:51 AM. Reason: addition
06-23-23, 03:46 PM
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Right you are, here are some better views of front and rear hubs.
They have the oblong holes, but the holes are rather small in size compared to, say, a Campy hub. No branding _anywhere_ in sight!
They have the oblong holes, but the holes are rather small in size compared to, say, a Campy hub. No branding _anywhere_ in sight!
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06-23-23, 04:00 PM
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They really look like Normandy hubs, don't they? The size/number/placement of the holes in the flange, and the various bulges really line up with Maillard/Atom/Normandy, the cheap ones. Funny there is no branding on the hub barrels.
And the rear doesn't have the groove machined in the area between the freewheel and the hub. Wonder if this Shimano 3.3.3 freewheel is French threaded... Sometimes they only say on the backside, which would be hidden!
I may just try taking it off and see.
And the rear doesn't have the groove machined in the area between the freewheel and the hub. Wonder if this Shimano 3.3.3 freewheel is French threaded... Sometimes they only say on the backside, which would be hidden!
I may just try taking it off and see.
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06-23-23, 04:23 PM
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hubs appear to be Normandy Sport
expect cones to be old enough to exhibit the black oxide finish
if 1972 or later the OLD of the rear will be 122
if earlier the OLD will be 120
when Matsumoto changed from the small round holes in the flanges they went to a shape which is somewhat trapezoid
this was approximately 1973
if rear hub lacks groove it should be metric thread
a BSC thread gear block can be easily threaded onto a metric hub as the pitch diameter of metric is 34.7mm while the pitch diameter of BSC is 34.85mm
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hubs appear to be Normandy Sport
expect cones to be old enough to exhibit the black oxide finish
if 1972 or later the OLD of the rear will be 122
if earlier the OLD will be 120
when Matsumoto changed from the small round holes in the flanges they went to a shape which is somewhat trapezoid
this was approximately 1973
if rear hub lacks groove it should be metric thread
a BSC thread gear block can be easily threaded onto a metric hub as the pitch diameter of metric is 34.7mm while the pitch diameter of BSC is 34.85mm
-----
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06-23-23, 04:29 PM
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Thanks!! Seems right to me..
Right, I have done this in my younger days. This is what I am afraid of. Karma returns this misfortune to me.
if rear hub lacks groove it should be metric thread
a BSC thread gear block can be easily threaded onto a metric hub as the pitch diameter of metric is 34.7mm while the pitch diameter of BSC is 34.85mm
a BSC thread gear block can be easily threaded onto a metric hub as the pitch diameter of metric is 34.7mm while the pitch diameter of BSC is 34.85mm
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Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
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07-04-23, 05:03 PM
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Yep, as we suspected. BSC freewheel on metric hub. I was about to send these wheels to a good friend, and I am glad I did not.
It was not on tight at all, which makes me hope the thing wasn't ridden much if at all. A few metal shavings came out when I unscrewed it but the threads look good, so I bet the hub can still be used with a French gear block.
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07-04-23, 05:38 PM
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yes, you have it
as recalled, the transition time was 1973-1974
when one goes back far eno' in Matsumoto hubs they made some where the dustcaps are press fit to the cones
[this is a photo found to illustrate, do not know maker of this axle set]
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forgot to mention above that it is fairly common to encounter Normandy Sport hubs which are completely unmarked
have no idea what fraction of the production may have left Incheville marked vs unmarked but the unmarked are not particularly rare
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Last edited by juvela; 07-04-23 at 05:56 PM. Reason: addition & correction
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