elcyc

Death of The Derailleur? Honda’s Incredible Bicycle Gearboxes (All 3 Generations)

TiHabanero

Thankfully, no.

SpedFast

They're not for me, but than ebikes aren't either and just look at the interest in them.

rosefarts

Seems like ebike plus this transmission would be the best use of it. No way I’d want it on a glycogen fueled vehicle.

big john

Pinion has a 12 speed gearbox which I've seen tests of. It adds quite a bit of weight to the bike but it's supposed to be good for bashing around the back country. Probably not going to catch on.

KerryIrons

With all of the internal gearing systems invented over the past 130 years or so, there has never been one that is as efficient as chain drive (and thus derailleur shifting). As long as humans are providing the power, other shifting systems will have to demonstrate efficiency very close to chain drive in order to be competitive in the market.

kommisar

I heard that shimano's next electronic grupo does away with the chain and derailleurs completely. They just have a magnetic resistance on the bottom bracket and then a simulation drives the rear hub motor according to the virtual bottom bracket torque and rpm. The really neat feature is that multiple drive inputs can be enabled so that a fraction of a team's domestique output can additionally increase the power of the team leader's motor. Apparently there will be a new top end grupo "Virtuna" that will sit above dura ace in the product stack.

Garthr

Nope, derailleurs and chains will always be because they simply work. I derailleur from the 60's is as usable today as it ever was. Hey, I like freewheels and threaded hubs for my bikes, be it 1 or 7 cogs. There's a better selection of 6 and 7 speed FW's than 7 speed cassettes. Ain't that the kicker ? While I get the intention of the cassette version, it's "solution" was to a "problem" that the industry created themselves. That's the big lie, they tell a narrative of flaw/trouble in order to sell some suckers what they're selling as "new and improved". They create a problem and then sell you on the solution to the their problem. Con art 101.
Meanwhile threaded hubs and freewheels still work as good as ever. Cassettes and (overpriced) freehubs, if you can get one you actually want and not one you don't, would also endure.

Those gear box thingies will come and go faster than I can say BOO ! Meanwhile Dinosaurs like me and other will be riding our antique chain driven beauties forever and a day.

PeteHski

Conspiracy theory hey.

Wildwood 

Yeah right.
Where can I buy it?
The Unobtanium Store?

livedarklions

Clickbait headline on a dead letter. Great gearing system if all you do is go downhill. The cost alone is reason enough it won't get anywhere unless it actually gets better than derailleur hanging.


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Lkrav3

Had no idea...

Wildwood 

Want to get rid of a front derailleur? Without downsides of 1X?
Here is a real product. New overhaul to rear hub gear performance for the racing set.
Shimano (and many others) upgrading rear hub capabilities. Look at this area for further innovation and hardware in the near future. Rear hub motors get attention, too

Hub gears in the WorldTour: Campenaerts to race on Classified Powershift hub | Cyclist
Go Victor!

Shimagnolo

Finally! Something new in drivetrains!
Thanks for the link!

Wildwood 

Bleeding edge technology, bleeds my bicycle budget to death. Life preferable.
Butt,...someone please start buying so the future trickle down comes sooner!


Call me retrogrouch, I stopped at Di2.


edit: Makes me wonder if the newly announced Shimano consolidation of low end groups - Cues - might be compatible with rear hubbed multi-gear products. Wow, that would be a leap forward in gearing options.

livedarklions

Now that looks interesting!


Is there much efficiency loss with the planetary gears?

Wildwood 

I know nothing of planetary gear efficiency, but a world hour record holding cyclist would not be riding it if any efficiency loss wasn't overcome by other factors. A 62tooth chainring was mentioned for some of the Classics races.

I think it was stated he has been testing the system for a year. Probably some mods over a year of development. Especially with 3D printing.

livedarklions

I usually don't like to draw lessons from pros, but that's a good point. That may be the event that punishes inefficiency most thoroughly.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around what riding this setup would feel like.

Wildwood 

Performance innovations of bikes (not e-bikes) have almost always been tested under the saddles of pro riders. (Maybe ebikes, too? )

As to how it would feel, there are BF posters - call them ultimate gear heads - who have 'cobbled' multispeed rear hubs with rear derailleurs. Overlapping gear combos is guaranteed, but low gear inches was the goal, if my memory serves - never a good bet. The new system, at the pro level, may be more about higher gear inches with a huge chainring. Victor is a multiple hour record holder.

edit: I ride like a pro - in my wildest of dreams!

livedarklions

I like to ride big gear inches, so this interests me.

My aversion to drawing lessons from pros stems from the fact that I am not remotely built like a pro, and I'm 30-40 years older than them. So when people say "this is what pros use", it's usually not likely to translate to me.

Wildwood 

Don't worry. Only one pro is using it - so far. No guaranteed new lessons to be learned yet.
At least it is an innovation that passed UCI regs! Who wants to bet they quash it for use in the future - unless, or until Shimano introduces a similar product?
Who really runs the equipment regs?

rydabent

I wouldnt bet money on that.

RB1-luvr

this is interesting. Thank you to the OP. I learnt something today.

livedarklions

Why would you? Honda didn't.

rollagain

So, what's the difference between this and using something like a Patterson, Schlumpf, or Efneo at the front? Nothing 'new' about those ...