3alarmer 

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...I've had a remarkable history of good luck with these, so I thought I'd put photos of all of them in one thread with the hope that others might do the same. There are not that many examples in the section over on Classic Rendezvous.

Anyway, this first one is a Windsor Touring Elite, which is sort of a sport tourer that you don't see often.

3alarmer 

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3alarmer 

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3alarmer 

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3alarmer 

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Wildwood 

I have yet to take delivery of this '70s Carabela SemiPro, but here's 3 shots. Love to see others and get feedback from anyone who has owned one in a large (or very large) frame size. My plan is to eventually switch from 27" to 700c with the largest tire that fits comfortably.

juvela

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Thanks very much for sharing these.

Is the steerer i.d. on the Touring Elite .833 or 22.2?

Had not seen this model before, much appreciated.

The silver Pro was once licensed in Berkeley, California.

Wildwood's Carabela SemiPro looks to be the same beast as the Windsor Carrera Sport. Is shell BSC or Italian? IIRC they came through both ways depending on year.

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Wildwood 

Can let you know after Thanksgiving.

Unless someone else has the answer sooner????
I do not know the exact year - and if anyone can help, based on the pics above, I would be grateful.

cdmurphy

1975-76?? Carabela Profesional:

More or less a Windsor Profesional with Shimano rather than Campy dropouts, and black 1st generation Dura Ace sweetness.

DSCF3887.jpg by c79murphy, on Flickr

DSCF3892.jpg by c79murphy, on Flickr

DSCF3889.jpg by c79murphy, on Flickr

juvela

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Thanks Wildwood.

Looks like 1973 to my eye. Owned a complete red new Windsor one and have had a couple of the frame's come through the workshop as well.

I would suspect your steerer & stem may be the .833 size. The frames on this model are constructed of a Japanese tubeset.

Shall look forward to the post Gobbler Dag reportage.

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3alarmer 

...it's 22.2. It has a frame tubing sticker just like the one they used for the Columbus on one of those Pro's I have.

Piff 

Wowza, beautiful bikes. I love the red mini-panniers.

3alarmer 

.
...Eclipse racks and bags were kind of trendy in the 70's.



There are more of them in this thread.

juvela

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3alarmer -

thanks very much for the response.

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Wildwood -

when you have machine to hand one measurement which may be of interest is the size of the opening in the top of the MA-60, with reference to whether it corresponds to a 22.2 or an .833.

it will likely have an Italian threaded shell. the combination of an .833 steerer & stem paired with an Italian shell is one unlikely for the cyclist or mechanic to encounter elsewhere.

regarding dating - you may find a date code on the backside of the Sugino Maxy crank arms. scroll down to "Sugino" and then go to "Code 2":

Date of Manufacture of Bicycle Components can be used to date a bike: component dating

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over on the appraisals forum there was a recent thread discussing a Carabela which looked to correspond to the Windsor Carrera model. of interest in that it is clearly early seventies and appears to be nearly all original.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...king-50-a.html

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Piff 

I'm possibly going to go pick one of these up, do you happen to know the max tire clearance for this frame with 700c wheels? Looks like it's possible to go 32mm and fenders?

Kabuki12

I have no idea about the touring model. I run 28’s on my Pro , no problem . Joe

3alarmer 

...in the one pictured in the OP, those are 700x28's. With some judicious fender fiddling, you can probably get 32's on there, but I've never actually tried to go that wide. I would need to figure out something to raise my fenders to get 32's to work. On the front, you could go with mounting the fender using one of those thingies that uses a fender washer and a bolt up through the fork crown, that grabs into a fitting that slides onto the brake caliper mounting bolt....a Daruma. I've made my own using old MAFAC brake shoe holders, a fender washer, some tire rubber, and a properly sized and threaded nut. VO sells them.

Piff 

Thanks for the response! That's sorta the feeling I was getting from your pictures, that 32mm would be a seriously tight squeeze with fenders in the front but that it *might* be possible. The rear looks like it should fit alright...

Do you like the ride of the Touring Elite? Can it handle a load? Seems like a nice sport tourer with an emphasis on 'sport'. I'm hoping it can be my quiver killer, especially down the line if I really like it and do a 650b conversion.

3alarmer 

...I like mine a lot, and use it riding around town. It's one of the few Columbus tubed touring bikes I've seen, and the longer wheel base puts it well into the classification of randonneuring bikes. It's not something I'd choose for loaded touring, because the very things like a Columbus DB tubed frame make it less suitable for that. But the smaller bags I have on my Eclipse rack limit me to less stuff anyway.

I have a lot of bicycles (too many, like a lot of folks). But this one gets ridden about as much as any of them, and more than most of them. The longer wheel base fits me anatomically, a little better than a frame with a shorter top tube and matching longer stem. All in all, one of my more fortunate acquisitions. One later model Frejus turned out to be a disaster. But this bike works really well for me at this point in time. I don't remember if the components on there now are what came with it ? I think they are, except for maybe the pedals and the wheels.

Piff 

Good, good, you understood the assignment exactly! I now have no choice but to purchase this bike

If only it was a surefire thing that 32mm tires with fenders will fit no problem...but it certainly seems likely. A rando/sport touring bike has been my target for years now...maybe this is finally it!

bikingshearer 

Another data point that may or may not be useful, as WIndsor Pros were mostly Cinelli copies. Cinelli used to sell SC frames with fenders BITD, so they have to have fit with some tire size or other.

FWIW, my two mid-60s Cinelli SC's take 32s with no problems w/o fenders, They would fit a rear fender with a 32mm tire, but getting a fender on in the front would be difficult. and maybe impossible. A lot depends on the the brake you are using; a Tektro 539 definitely will not fit a front fender but the 559 that you would have to use on the rear probably would fit a fender. 28mm tired probably would allow fenders front and rear fender, 25mm definitely would. Universal 61 center pulls would probably work with 32mm front and rear, but I haven't actually tried, only eyeballing. I would expect Universal 68 sidepulls to be pretty similar to the 61 centerpulls; if I'm wrong about that, someone will chime in.

A lot will depend on the the brake reaches for which the Windsor was built. My mid-60s Cinellis are built to take the short front/long rear brake reached with the Italians were so enamored until 1970 or so. If your frames take Campy standard reach, your front fender clearances will be bigger than mune but the rear fender clearances will smaller.

Piff 

The touring elite indeed seems to follow a geometry close to the 60s Cinelli you describe. What is the deal with the short front and long rear brake? Just a style thing?

And agreed that this would take judicious brake caliper choice for maximum fender clearance. For anyone curious, CLB pro brakes are not stellar in this regard.

bikingshearer 

God only knows, but just as the French have their quirks, the Italians have theirs. I have heard that the front was made short to increase raw braking power (although the phrases "raw braking power" and "Universal 51 side pulls" are mutually exclusive) and the rear was made longer for better modulation. It's the only half-way reasonable explanation I've heard, but I am not completely convinced. All I know is that it is kind of annoying